Author Topic: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange  (Read 115090 times)

Offline stslimited

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2013, 04:39:36 AM »
As Benny said, and which I agree, no serious company wants to try and circumvent the rules.  The United States might let you get away with something for a while, but it'll eventually catch up with you.  Any serious business that wants to be around for any reasonable period of time wants to comply with all rules instead of cutting corners to get a quick gain.  If they have to register with the SEC and pay a fee, then at least they've taken steps to ensure they will not be in violation of the law and have their entire company shut down.

And while I'm no exchange lawyer or SEC expert by any means, I'm quite sure offering shares on a centralized or decentralized exchange will make no difference.  Unless you've registered with the SEC as a legitimate business, they will eventually come after you if fiat is being exchanged.  I believe there are several examples of sites that have gone bankrupt because of exactly this.

fiat has nothing to do with it. it is the offering of securities to US investors........

the securities act of 1933 never had never does ever ever define any security by the currency it is denominated in.

Offline cryptol0rd

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2013, 09:45:55 AM »
As Benny said, and which I agree, no serious company wants to try and circumvent the rules.  The United States might let you get away with something for a while, but it'll eventually catch up with you.  Any serious business that wants to be around for any reasonable period of time wants to comply with all rules instead of cutting corners to get a quick gain.  If they have to register with the SEC and pay a fee, then at least they've taken steps to ensure they will not be in violation of the law and have their entire company shut down.

And while I'm no exchange lawyer or SEC expert by any means, I'm quite sure offering shares on a centralized or decentralized exchange will make no difference.  Unless you've registered with the SEC as a legitimate business, they will eventually come after you if fiat is being exchanged.  I believe there are several examples of sites that have gone bankrupt because of exactly this.

If fiat is being exchange sure but we aren't talking about fiat being exchanged. None of us are. SEC has no chance of stopping decentralized exchanges. It's practically unenforceable and if they tried all they'd be doing is damaging the US economy as all that US investment would go to foreign hands.

The SEC can sabotage the US economic status, increase the national debt, and reduce the US tax base all at once by spending tax dollars trying to investigate every little transaction on various block chains. It is their money to waste and they'd only be able to shut down US businesses.

I think the fear of the SEC is irrational. Foreign companies and US investors have nothing to fear. US businesses have something to fear and does it make sense for the SEC to hurt America in order to enforce regulations which are unenforceable?

I will not put it past them though. The RIAA and MPAA attempted to sue millions of their customers in order to stop innovation in the past. I hope they are smart enough not to try that approach again this time and instead treat it like they did the Internet in the early days. This would mean there has to be new laws to allow US businesses to list on Ciphertrade. If these new laws do not come into place then some US businesses will take a chance and defy the SEC. As the size of the crypto economy grows then more businesses will defy the SEC and if the SEC cracks down hard then investment money will go straight into the foreign hands who are wise enough not regulate their economy to death.

I really think it's check mate for the SEC. They don't really have the option to avoid changing their rules here because the technology is forcing it. The smartest thing the SEC could do is make an exemption for all companies who meet some minimum compliance level but this has to be set in stone so companies actually have a way to comply. As it is right now there isn't any clear set of rules to comply with.

The crowd funding rules were not designed for virtual currencies and have a lot of assumptions which only make sense when dealing with dollars. A lot of laws which made sense before do not make sense anymore. And the decentralized blockchain enables companies to issue currencies which would remove the SEC from the picture entirely.

Any company can issue a currency which could act as a voucher or gift card purchased with virtual currency and redeemable in products and services. They could come up with all kinds of point systems as well. So if you're buying hashrate instead of buying shares you'd buy a hashrate giftcard which rewards frequent buyers of hashrate with even cheaper hashrate in the future. It's not a dividend but a reward point.

And for companies outside of the USA they could use the decentralized exchange to issue securities to US investors and the SEC can't do anything about that other than to warn US investors of the risks.

As Benny said, and which I agree, no serious company wants to try and circumvent the rules.  The United States might let you get away with something for a while, but it'll eventually catch up with you.  Any serious business that wants to be around for any reasonable period of time wants to comply with all rules instead of cutting corners to get a quick gain.  If they have to register with the SEC and pay a fee, then at least they've taken steps to ensure they will not be in violation of the law and have their entire company shut down.

And while I'm no exchange lawyer or SEC expert by any means, I'm quite sure offering shares on a centralized or decentralized exchange will make no difference.  Unless you've registered with the SEC as a legitimate business, they will eventually come after you if fiat is being exchanged.  I believe there are several examples of sites that have gone bankrupt because of exactly this.

fiat has nothing to do with it. it is the offering of securities to US investors........

the securities act of 1933 never had never does ever ever define any security by the currency it is denominated in.

I'm not advocating breaking any laws but show me some cases where the SEC actually enforced that? I don't see the SEC enforcing anything except the dollar. Are they enforcing trades in Second Life and World of Warcraft?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 09:54:09 AM by cryptol0rd »

Offline skinnkavaj

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2013, 10:25:24 AM »
How greedy will the IPO price be for the exchange it self?
1 million LTC for 10%?

Offline tony.vonver

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2013, 10:16:26 PM »
ease of use is important
Absolutely. We will be taking the best from what's out there and improving it. Lots of charts, etc, though some of the pretties will have to wait a little.

I find that the lack of decent charts is probably one of the most strikingly missing feature on the main exchanges nowadays, at least the ones I use most (btc-e, mtgox, bitstamp, vircurex, mcxnow, bter and cryptsy). I don't know about the latest ones that emerged, nor the chinese ones, but the aforementioned ones are really terrible in that regard... I find myself liking btc-e's best, even though it's pretty much non-configurable...

This may not be that hard a feature to get, in the sense that there must be a million libraries out there that can transform time series into charts with all the bells and whistles, though this is just a conjecture on my part. I know that a good chart goes a long way for me when it comes to anticipating swings.

I recently discovered coinmarketcap.com which I like, however basic that may be. cryptocoincharts.info (to be added to the exchange I believe) is pretty good too, but for instance is really missing the ability to see the coins versus USD easily (which wouldn't be too hard to derive). Also the fact that those are not exchanges per se make them less appealing.

Anyway, I thought I'd bring that up (I don't believe it has been already)

Offline LiteBit

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2013, 01:35:00 PM »
ease of use is important
Absolutely. We will be taking the best from what's out there and improving it. Lots of charts, etc, though some of the pretties will have to wait a little.

I find that the lack of decent charts is probably one of the most strikingly missing feature on the main exchanges nowadays, at least the ones I use most (btc-e, mtgox, bitstamp, vircurex, mcxnow, bter and cryptsy). I don't know about the latest ones that emerged, nor the chinese ones, but the aforementioned ones are really terrible in that regard... I find myself liking btc-e's best, even though it's pretty much non-configurable...

This may not be that hard a feature to get, in the sense that there must be a million libraries out there that can transform time series into charts with all the bells and whistles, though this is just a conjecture on my part. I know that a good chart goes a long way for me when it comes to anticipating swings.

I recently discovered coinmarketcap.com which I like, however basic that may be. cryptocoincharts.info (to be added to the exchange I believe) is pretty good too, but for instance is really missing the ability to see the coins versus USD easily (which wouldn't be too hard to derive). Also the fact that those are not exchanges per se make them less appealing.

Anyway, I thought I'd bring that up (I don't believe it has been already)

2 more you will want to use are:

bitcoinwisdom.com
bitcoin.clarkmoody.com

Offline evilscoop

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2013, 04:04:57 PM »
we are planning on many graphs etc

Offline tony.vonver

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2013, 02:04:08 AM »
bitcoinwisdom.com
bitcoin.clarkmoody.com

Thanks LiteBit, those are indeed much fancier... Still they don't seem to show as many coins as cryptocoincharts, but maybe that's because I haven't dug around enough!

Offline LiteBit

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2013, 03:18:36 AM »
bitcoinwisdom.com
bitcoin.clarkmoody.com

Thanks LiteBit, those are indeed much fancier... Still they don't seem to show as many coins as cryptocoincharts, but maybe that's because I haven't dug around enough!

They only deal with BTC and LTC.

Offline tony.vonver

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2013, 10:12:41 PM »
However, we are very interested in P2P platforms and are watching those technologies closely. In the near-term it is unnecessary, but depending on how the regulatory environment evolves we may choose to change CipherTrade's technical platform.

Hi Kate,

Could you please elaborate on that earlier comment you made about BitShares/Mastercoin/coloured coins? How would you approach that concretely, and what would be the effort involved?

Lastly, and at the risk of creating a new heated debate, I'm curious to know what your take is on those technologies (other than the fact that they're too young for now)? Personally I'm starting to see a great potential there, but then again, I've only scratched the surface of it.

Cheers!

Offline evilscoop

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2013, 05:10:44 PM »
However, we are very interested in P2P platforms and are watching those technologies closely. In the near-term it is unnecessary, but depending on how the regulatory environment evolves we may choose to change CipherTrade's technical platform.

Hi Kate,

Could you please elaborate on that earlier comment you made about BitShares/Mastercoin/coloured coins? How would you approach that concretely, and what would be the effort involved?

Lastly, and at the risk of creating a new heated debate, I'm curious to know what your take is on those technologies (other than the fact that they're too young for now)? Personally I'm starting to see a great potential there, but then again, I've only scratched the surface of it.

Cheers!

Currently they appear to be interesting propositions, and we may have a view to shift to them as they mature, its actually in parts of build and design plan to be able to swap out the back-end for a new coin/wallet system down the line.
BUT, these are just not mature or stable enough to work with now, and our main focus is on getting a public demo online for everyone to play with.

Offline Duffer1

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2013, 06:37:41 AM »
Have you considered approaching Lloyds of London for possible theft insurance for your users?  See any given exchange that's been robbed or had the operators split with the cash for why that feature would be valuable.

I bet you could cut your marketing budget substantially if you could secure insurance.  It would be a first in Bitcoin, and the PR would be amazing.

Offline ackkraut

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2013, 02:03:07 AM »
Duffer1,

I think you bring up an excellent point.  If someone hasn't come up with this, they should.  It would be a huge benefit to the exchanges, both in security and reputability.  There is insurance for everything these days.

Offline fluffypony

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2013, 06:53:44 PM »
Just wanted to pop in to say that OpenRigs is ticking along nicely - we did mammoth sales over the Black Friday weekend, and are looking forward to being one of the launch securities on CipherTrade. We have the utmost confidence in the team, and no doubt that it will go well. Exciting times are ahead!

Offline hayek

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2013, 04:06:39 PM »
Is it just me or does the clock keep pushing back the goal post?

Is this the kind of communication we should expect as a standard from CT?

Offline evilscoop

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2013, 04:53:22 PM »
I posted a twitter update, but more info will be in the newsletter on Friday.

Its looking unlikely a full public access beta will be online this friday, but im hoping we can get some screenshots out...

The delay is due to some pen testing issues and some gui changes, but currently does not effect the (hopeful) 2 jan launch date.