Author Topic: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange  (Read 115089 times)

Offline tony.vonver

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2013, 07:46:31 PM »
Also, as part of our shadow team has demonstrated quite conclusively (in part through mathematical simulations and in part just be reading some learned papers on the topic), it is not possible to reliably make money using trading bots anyway.

A bit off-topic, but do you mind expanding a bit on that (linking to the said papers for instance)? I've always though that would hardly be profitable but would love to read up on it.

Incidentally I second the liquidity argument.

Offline stereotype

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2013, 09:56:27 PM »
Kate

I posted your original post link in a security thread (ActiveMining) on Bitcointalk, in reply to an enquiry about alternative exchange possibilities for Activemining.

A point was raised regarding US investor involvement. Are you able to answer kleeck's question? 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3616159#msg3616159


Offline Benny

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2013, 10:04:20 PM »
Kate

I posted your original post link in a security thread (ActiveMining) on Bitcointalk, in reply to an enquiry about alternative exchange possibilities for Activemining.

A point was raised regarding US investor involvement. Are you able to answer kleeck's question? 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3616159#msg3616159

Actually, there's a way around this. BuyAHash has already sought legal counsel on this issue, and there are ways to make your company compatible with the SEC I will work to advise Kate on this issue, to ensure that CipherTrade and their securities can work inside the SEC's current and future framework.

Offline stereotype

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2013, 10:29:52 PM »
Kate

I posted your original post link in a security thread (ActiveMining) on Bitcointalk, in reply to an enquiry about alternative exchange possibilities for Activemining.

A point was raised regarding US investor involvement. Are you able to answer kleeck's question? 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3616159#msg3616159

Actually, there's a way around this. BuyAHash has already sought legal counsel on this issue, and there are ways to make your company compatible with the SEC I will work to advise Kate on this issue, to ensure that CipherTrade and their securities can work inside the SEC's current and future framework.

Do we read from that, that there is a recognised approach or process, that companies outside of the US could/would/should employ with SEC involvement, or is it just UK authorities we are satisfying? 

Offline Kleeck

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2013, 10:31:18 PM »
Kate

I posted your original post link in a security thread (ActiveMining) on Bitcointalk, in reply to an enquiry about alternative exchange possibilities for Activemining.

A point was raised regarding US investor involvement. Are you able to answer kleeck's question? 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3616159#msg3616159

Actually, there's a way around this. BuyAHash has already sought legal counsel on this issue, and there are ways to make your company compatible with the SEC I will work to advise Kate on this issue, to ensure that CipherTrade and their securities can work inside the SEC's current and future framework.

I am said, "kleeck". I'd be interested in hearing the legal framework for navigating around concerns that US investors have. If you can accurately navigate these waters then I think CipherTrade has a good shot at being the next big exchange.

Cheers!

Offline Benny

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2013, 11:10:59 PM »
Kate

I posted your original post link in a security thread (ActiveMining) on Bitcointalk, in reply to an enquiry about alternative exchange possibilities for Activemining.

A point was raised regarding US investor involvement. Are you able to answer kleeck's question? 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3616159#msg3616159

Actually, there's a way around this. BuyAHash has already sought legal counsel on this issue, and there are ways to make your company compatible with the SEC I will work to advise Kate on this issue, to ensure that CipherTrade and their securities can work inside the SEC's current and future framework.

I am said, "kleeck". I'd be interested in hearing the legal framework for navigating around concerns that US investors have. If you can accurately navigate these waters then I think CipherTrade has a good shot at being the next big exchange.

Cheers!

That's why I am an adviser to CipherTrade. Since we are US-based, we want to make sure we do everything by the book with the SEC. In a year or two, the legalities are going to be far more favorable to securities when the SEC finally approves their framework for the JOBS act. But until then, you can do a few registrations with the SEC to give you some leeway with US investors. However, its not cheap, and not a good idea for smaller companies that don't have the capital. However, we do, and we're going to be the test case to insure the framework checks out with our lawyer. If we're right about the framework, the solution is not optimal in the least. But it would allow for some US investment... But not a lot. And it'd still require KYC framework to verify with US investors.

Offline Kleeck

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2013, 11:34:30 PM »
Kate

I posted your original post link in a security thread (ActiveMining) on Bitcointalk, in reply to an enquiry about alternative exchange possibilities for Activemining.

A point was raised regarding US investor involvement. Are you able to answer kleeck's question? 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3616159#msg3616159

Actually, there's a way around this. BuyAHash has already sought legal counsel on this issue, and there are ways to make your company compatible with the SEC I will work to advise Kate on this issue, to ensure that CipherTrade and their securities can work inside the SEC's current and future framework.

I am said, "kleeck". I'd be interested in hearing the legal framework for navigating around concerns that US investors have. If you can accurately navigate these waters then I think CipherTrade has a good shot at being the next big exchange.

Cheers!

That's why I am an adviser to CipherTrade. Since we are US-based, we want to make sure we do everything by the book with the SEC. In a year or two, the legalities are going to be far more favorable to securities when the SEC finally approves their framework for the JOBS act. But until then, you can do a few registrations with the SEC to give you some leeway with US investors. However, its not cheap, and not a good idea for smaller companies that don't have the capital. However, we do, and we're going to be the test case to insure the framework checks out with our lawyer. If we're right about the framework, the solution is not optimal in the least. But it would allow for some US investment... But not a lot. And it'd still require KYC framework to verify with US investors.

When you say, "it would allow for some US investment... But not a lot." Do you mean that there would be some sort of cap on trade amounts per user? What kind of limitations are we talking about here? I'm less concerned with a KYC implementation.

Offline Benny

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 11:37:14 PM »
When you say, "it would allow for some US investment... But not a lot." Do you mean that there would be some sort of cap on trade amounts per user? What kind of limitations are we talking about here? I'm less concerned with a KYC implementation.

I'm still working on the exact framework with our lawyer. But there would be a cap on the number of US users that could hold a given security that has filed with the SEC. There may be ways to increase the cap, but they come at ever-increasing costs.

Offline Kleeck

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2013, 12:03:40 AM »
So each individual security would need to be registered with the SEC (where applicable)? Would it be possible to implement a pass thru as a work around to the share holder cap per security?

Offline Shivan Raiders

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2013, 02:02:02 AM »
Congrats so far on your progresss, I am impressed to see your vision of the site and I am looking forward to trading on it.  I usually don't post, but actually created an account to share one of my favorite things from trading on LTC and BTC Global that I have never seen anyone talk about.   This was the ability to place a buy order for multiple securities with the same BTC, for example, if I had a balance of 10 BTC, I could put in a 10btc order for Cognitive, AND a 10btc order for ASICMINER, AND a 10btc order for bASIC MINING.  This effectively multiplied my buying opportunity and I was able to support (and profit) from securities that had a sudden and unexpected drop.  I have not seen any other trading site and I personality HATE missing out on those opportunities when they come up.  Usually when I am sleeping  ;)

There are many other more important items than this, however, I believe that it was one of the many good things that Burnside did right to bring bigger money to the exchange.

I didn't think that LTCG/BTCTC allowed you to do that. Can someone else confirm please?

If so, how did it function? Once the first order was complete presumably the others got canceled?

To be honest I'm not sure that such a feature would be good for the exchange. It would allow people to create artificial buy walls which lacked real backing. You'd certainly not be able to do the opposite with shares; each sell order would lock them. The same applies to options.

Kate.


Yes, once the first order was filled all other orders that were not supported by the new balance would be immediately canceled.  My example was a simple one, I usually would have 2-4+ bids in on a couple of different securities trying to scale in, then trade out of it as the price would recover.  Of course on a single security my multiple bids could not exceed my balance.  If you were to combine all of my bids on all my securities, it would exceed my balance, understanding that not all could ever be filled simultaneously.  As orders were filled on one security, other different securities would be canceled starting with the lowest bid that was not supported by the new balance.  It was pretty impressive of how the software worked...

Yes, i thought that it did put up pseudo artificial walls, but at the same time it would create pseudo liquidity by having more bids in the que.  It is a double edge sword.

I was kind of hoping Cipher would have purchased the trade engine and I might have kept my trading edge for a while longer.  Honestly, either way, I guess that edge is now lost so it is up to you to manage how the trade engine will works.

Offline shadallion

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2013, 04:43:06 AM »
This is very exciting, audacious news.  Good job Kate + team, I'm rooting for you all!

Offline Bonksnp

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2013, 06:16:29 AM »
Well, looks like there is some good news as a US investor.  Granted the article linked below specifically mentions bitcoin, but virtual currency is virtual currency.  I can't see why LTC would have any issues that bitcoin wouldn't.

Quote
The Department of Justice and Securities and Exchange Commission are telling a U.S. Senate committee that Bitcoins are legitimate financial instruments, boosting prospects for wider acceptance of the virtual currency.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-18/u-s-agencies-to-say-bitcoins-offer-legitimate-benefits.html

Offline stslimited

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2013, 06:25:25 AM »
the SEC can exempt any securities or entire asset classes AND EXCHANGES from certain regulatory requirements provided there is a public interest in doing so.

Crpytocurrency exchanges cannot sensibly apply for certain exemptions without completely stifling commerce. Appeal to the SEC.

I know you guys are in the UK, but americans are a huuuuuuge source of liquidity for cryptocurrency securities.

We all saw the selloffs after 3 exchanges closed in the same month.

I believe a 2-year exemption from SEC action can be achieved

Offline mook6_99

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2013, 07:41:15 AM »
So, not wanting to look like an idiot here I was wondering how current share holder accounts are being handled. Example I own shares of cyphermine does this mean as soon as ciphertrade is launched I will have some type of account? If not how will we link created accounts with our recorded shares. What kind of information was transferred to you guys at the closure of litecoin global? Thanks for any information.

Offline cryptol0rd

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Re: Request for input on CIPHERTRADE, a new multi-coin securities exchange
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2013, 09:47:33 AM »
Does the SEC have any history of going after foreign exchanges over small amounts of money like this? I'm skeptical of all this fear of the SEC when all the exchanges which shut down were US based.