Author Topic: [LTCGear] legit discussion  (Read 608432 times)

Offline gsupp

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2014, 01:13:44 AM »
You guys can do the math, there is no way there is this much hash power. We're talking massive scale warehouse, which most likely doesn't exist. The power alone could probably power a small city.

How do you figure "there is no way" there could be that much hash power? There's 0.8 megawatts worth of miners on the floor above me (296 Spondoolies SP30s to be exact) and they're not in a massive scale warehouse. 2MW as skuser estimated doesn't seem impossible to me and 2MW will not power a small city, it's just 1 small commercial data center.

The thing you guys don't realize is while you think you may have ROI'd (sy yours is coming in 2 weeks), you really havn't unless you've cashed out and its in your bank account.

I can reach a ROI in terms of BTC spent and BTC I have received from LTCGear that's in my wallet. It's not like the payouts from LTCGear are credits on my account with them, they're BTC payments to my wallet. Why does it have to be converted back to fiat and "in your bank account"?

Offline Sy

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2014, 07:04:09 AM »
You guys can do the math, there is no way there is this much hash power. We're talking massive scale warehouse, which most likely doesn't exist. The power alone could probably power a small city.

How do you figure "there is no way" there could be that much hash power? There's 0.8 megawatts worth of miners on the floor above me (296 Spondoolies SP30s to be exact) and they're not in a massive scale warehouse. 2MW as skuser estimated doesn't seem impossible to me and 2MW will not power a small city, it's just 1 small commercial data center.

Exactly, it is possible with the right know how and preparations and since chris is in this business for over a year it is even believeable - i would still like to visit him xD

Offline FreeJack2k

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2014, 05:06:53 PM »
Just thought I'd chime in and mention that if you look at the hashrate distribution list on Pooler's site, "Solo Miner #1" has had a very significant footprint on the Litecoin network since May (currently around 113 GH/s). It seems entirely within the realm of possibility that this is Beekeeper's ASIC farm (part of it, anyway). It appears that he announced conversion to ASIC happening in the first week of June...he was probably deploying it in the week leading up to that announcement. I had been watching those solo addresses for quite a while, just to see what the behavior of the miners was with regard to selling or hoarding.

In reading through his thread, it is abundantly clear from his posting that he's most definitely an engineer and knows his stuff. He's actually produced hardware successfully in the past, which people have received and used. So I think that alone casts significant doubt on the ponzi worries. He's got a pretty long track record, he didn't just appear out of nowhere. Also, typically in a ponzi scheme you never have real control over your income - they put it in a "balance" on their website and you end up needing to manually request withdrawals, which puts the outflow of funds in their control. Beekeeper actually pays out weekly directly to your wallet. It's a significant difference.

For me, it's a worry that his site uses whoisguard to obscure his registration details and we don't really know who he is, where he is or anything else that would enable anyone to seek satisfaction, if things went south. On the flip side, I can also understand why someone operating a very large mining farm would not want strangers to know their whereabouts or true identity.

Personally, I prefer to own my hardware and if my hardware were being hosted by someone, I'd want to see it. I'm not wild about cloud mining...I think it is centralizing hashrate way too much.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 05:12:12 PM by FreeJack2k »

Offline organizer

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2014, 09:05:27 PM »
On the flip side, I can also understand why someone operating a very large mining farm would not want strangers to know their whereabouts or true identity.

Which is the true dilemma, I think both sides of the argument can make plausible "on the flip side" arguments for or against it...

Also, just regarding the ROI thing... many do understand that how the community uses ROI isn't the true meaning of it... also, I haven't risked a single bit of fiat on this stuff, aside from my dumb Alpha deposit which I took a 30% hit on... fuckers... but as long as it's in my wallet... I don't personally think it needs to be in my bank..

Offline Linger

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2014, 10:33:51 PM »
yeah I agree with you organizer, I rather not know too much information about the plant but instead just get paid on time and correctly each week.
kind of like a silent investor whos always paid! LTCgear  FTW!

Offline cloudminer

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2014, 04:32:18 AM »
Just thought I'd chime in and mention that if you look at the hashrate distribution list on Pooler's site, "Solo Miner #1" has had a very significant footprint on the Litecoin network since May (currently around 113 GH/s). It seems entirely within the realm of possibility that this is Beekeeper's ASIC farm (part of it, anyway). It appears that he announced conversion to ASIC happening in the first week of June...he was probably deploying it in the week leading up to that announcement. I had been watching those solo addresses for quite a while, just to see what the behavior of the miners was with regard to selling or hoarding.

Nice input!!  :) :)

Found this information to be really helpful!

Offline Cookdesk

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2014, 06:56:20 AM »
Just thought I'd chime in and mention that if you look at the hashrate distribution list on Pooler's site, "Solo Miner #1" has had a very significant footprint on the Litecoin network since May (currently around 113 GH/s). It seems entirely within the realm of possibility that this is Beekeeper's ASIC farm (part of it, anyway). It appears that he announced conversion to ASIC happening in the first week of June...he was probably deploying it in the week leading up to that announcement. I had been watching those solo addresses for quite a while, just to see what the behavior of the miners was with regard to selling or hoarding.

In reading through his thread, it is abundantly clear from his posting that he's most definitely an engineer and knows his stuff. He's actually produced hardware successfully in the past, which people have received and used. So I think that alone casts significant doubt on the ponzi worries. He's got a pretty long track record, he didn't just appear out of nowhere. Also, typically in a ponzi scheme you never have real control over your income - they put it in a "balance" on their website and you end up needing to manually request withdrawals, which puts the outflow of funds in their control. Beekeeper actually pays out weekly directly to your wallet. It's a significant difference.

For me, it's a worry that his site uses whoisguard to obscure his registration details and we don't really know who he is, where he is or anything else that would enable anyone to seek satisfaction, if things went south. On the flip side, I can also understand why someone operating a very large mining farm would not want strangers to know their whereabouts or true identity.

Personally, I prefer to own my hardware and if my hardware were being hosted by someone, I'd want to see it. I'm not wild about cloud mining...I think it is centralizing hashrate way too much.

This is very useful – thank you.

I agree the argument around privacy could be spun both ways.

Without being too generalist, the personality is of many engineers is also not so extravert and many (like academics) can be very focussed on their work or product and I mean the technical aspects of it rather than what they see as the frippery surrounding it (i.e. website, marketing, promotion and even in some cases the running of the actual business).

This may well be the case with Chris, perhaps his thinking is – let me focus on the product for the good of all and I will also be very straight down the line (which he completely has) around payments and the things that really matter.  The website marketing etc. can wait until later or not bother at all.

As an aside it is interesting that many of us, myself included, place a reasonable amount of store around such things… particularly when looking at LTCG for the first time.  I would say we can all conclude though that we know the kind of $ volume Chris is handling so we can also conclude it would be super easy for him to employ someone to create an all singing, all dancing website or do it himself.  I would say the fact that he has not is in fact supportive of the legitimacy of his venture – if you were just in business to try and drive huge volume and eventually rip people off, surely this would be one of the first things to attend to.

I also think the referral program could be spun both ways.  If the above is true, maybe Chris just thought I can’t be bothered with the activities of promoting and handling the admin for this but I am happy to pay a charge for sales and effectively outsource this to the community and I can just automate the back end – which he has done.

Offline ATCkit

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2014, 11:43:21 AM »
well said. Word of mouth is always the best advertisement.
 Chris seems to have extremely good technically skills.  He has used the "build it and they will come" philosophy by focusing on his strengths and thus providing a superior product that people began speaking about way back last spring. In fact, atlosas ( whom we all know from many other threads we are all on) had me convinced as early as April. I even put in an order at the time but my country's banking system would not let me send a wire to Romania. So I had to wait until mined enough btc to start buying. Maybe i should have just bought btc instead and invested last spring?
Anyway, I am in now and very happy with the weekly payouts.
I would far rather have a great technical guy and good team helping him set up a datacentre than having the focus on a glitzy web site. I imagine that Chris is  superior with numbers too...and is making a profit on the anniversary shares. I have a feeling that he is able to minimize his input costs a great deal ( compared to his competitors) by being the developer of his equipment. He may well have a lower profit margin too...and makes his $$ by producing volumes which he is able to continually sell because we all like his payouts :) and we all keep spreading the word about happy we are with his payouts.
 I would not be to surprised if he is able to lower his selling price even farther when the competition finally catches up to his $/ghs. Yup i feel that by January we will all be talking $/ghs instead of $/mhs. Having said all that, some competitor will eventually be able to come up with a business model similar Chris'. That will be good as i think there will come a point where Chris may not be able to keep up with the demand for his service  as his reputation and the industry as whole continues to grow. I think he will survive when that competitor comes along because he will be well established and continually upgrading his existing infrastructure with the most efficient equipment in order to maintain his piece of the pie. That will be good for all of us...ie: I mean Chris being in this for the long haul and competitors who can fill the demand when Chris has finally reached the optimal size that allows him to maintain an efficiently price product without extending himself and his team beyond their realistic and reasonable limits. Only time will tell. We all have to take an informed and calculated risk...or venture nothing and gain nothing. I think everyone of us has lost some money with the new developers we invested in last winter. It's really good to have a developer (and a couple other cloud mining services too) who has something that is helping us get back on track to break even faster and start making some profits again. From late winter through to August was a pretty bleak period for mining. Let's hope that is behind us now.

Offline Larry W

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2014, 12:34:19 PM »
marcellogreen. What are your thoughts after hearing so many other opinions / information / facts. I feel Chris is simply ahead of the game by several months which is miles and miles in this space.

Offline cashman

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2014, 01:52:39 PM »
It looks like Bee is at the forefront on scrypt coins.

Offline skuser

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2014, 03:05:09 PM »
I am pessimistic about this. His latest option to automatically convert dividends to shares implies he can grow the farm by 15% per week? Without counting in new orders? The only reason I can see is to slow down the pressure on dividend payouts growth.

Offline Sukarti

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2014, 03:29:08 PM »
I am pessimistic about this. His latest option to automatically convert dividends to shares implies he can grow the farm by 15% per week? Without counting in new orders? The only reason I can see is to slow down the pressure on dividend payouts growth.

I imagine most people are still cashing out, I know I am.

It was a feature requested by users, he isn't making people use it. Some people prefer to reinvest some weeks, I imagine this will reduce stock we see on a day to day basis during the week. We'll know more this week.

It is extremely useful for "smaller" users as they can now buy shares at the same cost as everyone else.

Offline artilectinc

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2014, 03:39:50 PM »
I am pessimistic about this. His latest option to automatically convert dividends to shares implies he can grow the farm by 15% per week? Without counting in new orders? The only reason I can see is to slow down the pressure on dividend payouts growth.

I imagine most people are still cashing out, I know I am.

It was a feature requested by users, he isn't making people use it. Some people prefer to reinvest some weeks, I imagine this will reduce stock we see on a day to day basis during the week. We'll know more this week.

It is extremely useful for "smaller" users as they can now buy shares at the same cost as everyone else.

It also depends on his scale.  If you assume that his data center is full utilized by all his customers then he would have to physically grow it to keep up with demand.  But if his data center is fully build out months ago and his customers only utilize a fraction of it then he doesn't have to do anything buy enable share conversion.  It could be that he has been running this data center for some time and only provided public customers a small share of the data center and he keeps the rest for himself and private investors.  Now as he is moving to a new product he is allowing customers to take on a larger share of it as he builds out a 2nd gen data center.

This is hypothetical. And only my theory.

Offline Sukarti

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2014, 03:48:30 PM »
I am pessimistic about this. His latest option to automatically convert dividends to shares implies he can grow the farm by 15% per week? Without counting in new orders? The only reason I can see is to slow down the pressure on dividend payouts growth.

I imagine most people are still cashing out, I know I am.

It was a feature requested by users, he isn't making people use it. Some people prefer to reinvest some weeks, I imagine this will reduce stock we see on a day to day basis during the week. We'll know more this week.

It is extremely useful for "smaller" users as they can now buy shares at the same cost as everyone else.

It also depends on his scale.  If you assume that his data center is full utilized by all his customers then he would have to physically grow it to keep up with demand.  But if his data center is fully build out months ago and his customers only utilize a fraction of it then he doesn't have to do anything buy enable share conversion.  It could be that he has been running this data center for some time and only provided public customers a small share of the data center and he keeps the rest for himself and private investors.  Now as he is moving to a new product he is allowing customers to take on a larger share of it as he builds out a 2nd gen data center.

This is hypothetical. And only my theory.

I agree completely, I posted that 5 or 6 weeks ago.

There is no way he is giving away a full weeks coin for a miner that isn't running already.

It's far more likely the miner has been running for a few weeks to subsidize cost and burn the miner in prior to Chris "selling" the hashing. I "would guess" he is keeping his farm around 50% subscription. This would give him room to allow for multiplications as well as inventory growth week to week.

There is also little chance he could be at 100% subscribed given the gross instability we are seeing across the market with Scrypt ASIC miners.

He has mentioned multiple data centers separated by some distance, he has also mentioned "splitting/expanding" "his" datacenter.

Offline AizenSou

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Re: LTCGear legit discussion
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2014, 11:57:53 AM »
I am pessimistic about this. His latest option to automatically convert dividends to shares implies he can grow the farm by 15% per week? Without counting in new orders? The only reason I can see is to slow down the pressure on dividend payouts growth.

I imagine most people are still cashing out, I know I am.

It was a feature requested by users, he isn't making people use it. Some people prefer to reinvest some weeks, I imagine this will reduce stock we see on a day to day basis during the week. We'll know more this week.

It is extremely useful for "smaller" users as they can now buy shares at the same cost as everyone else.

It also depends on his scale.  If you assume that his data center is full utilized by all his customers then he would have to physically grow it to keep up with demand.  But if his data center is fully build out months ago and his customers only utilize a fraction of it then he doesn't have to do anything buy enable share conversion.  It could be that he has been running this data center for some time and only provided public customers a small share of the data center and he keeps the rest for himself and private investors.  Now as he is moving to a new product he is allowing customers to take on a larger share of it as he builds out a 2nd gen data center.

This is hypothetical. And only my theory.

I agree completely, I posted that 5 or 6 weeks ago.

There is no way he is giving away a full weeks coin for a miner that isn't running already.

It's far more likely the miner has been running for a few weeks to subsidize cost and burn the miner in prior to Chris "selling" the hashing. I "would guess" he is keeping his farm around 50% subscription. This would give him room to allow for multiplications as well as inventory growth week to week.

There is also little chance he could be at 100% subscribed given the gross instability we are seeing across the market with Scrypt ASIC miners.

He has mentioned multiple data centers separated by some distance, he has also mentioned "splitting/expanding" "his" datacenter.

Makes sense. Thanks for your theory. Sounds very logic to me.