Author Topic: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014  (Read 4059 times)

Offline TheMage

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Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« on: August 24, 2014, 09:07:19 PM »
I want to thank everyone that did attend, the meeting was very productive from what I could see. I did have to redact 2 things from this conversation unfortunately, one from a legal stance and another one because at this point in time it was very prudent to redact the other part (trust me, there are good reasons to do so).

As a side note I dropped off the last 2 minutes, so Carnth had to PM the last few minutes of the log haha. Sorry guys if I never answered back :P.

Lastly I was going to put up a TLDR section, but im burned out for now. If someone else wants to do this I would appreciate it, thanks.


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[14:29] TheMage ok we can get started now
[14:29] TheMage This is the Fib/invsetors meeting
[14:29] TheMage investors*
[14:30] TheMage investors and hosts, feel free to ask any questions
[14:30] TheMage certain questions may not be able to be answers, and please understand that
[14:30] TheMage also be respectful of one another
[14:31] kinder112 Are we still under assumption that Asics are in works and will be delivered to buyers?
[14:31] TheMage with that said, the floor is open for investors
[14:32] TheMage Might be better to start questions with JasinLee
[14:32] jasinlee kinder112, Yes, and as people have pointed out there are delays occuring pushing the dates out past the expected delivery. I was informed that they should complete the code changes in september and hopefully have them complete in october.
[14:32] jasinlee Sorry, just a long sentence.
[14:33] jasinlee I do want to point out, the only parts I am attempting to keep from the public eye have to do with what will end up in litigation against the old developer. Threats and things of that sort can aid his defense.
[14:34] kinder112 can we get some tangible proof that the work is actually happening?
[14:35] |<-- usao has left freenode (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[14:35] jasinlee I can have a moderator review the contract, (which incidentally has a clause stating that confidentiality is required in the contract) but carnth was to be a trusted host so I think we are safe in him reviewing it.
[14:36] Carnth I don't know how much credibility I could bring.
[14:36] -->| usao ([email protected]/web/freenode/ip.70.162.243.235) has joined #fibmeeting
[14:36] |<-- usao has left freenode (Client Quit)
[14:36] Carnth Although I have experience in mining, I don't have ASIC fab experience,
[14:36] -->| usao ([email protected]/web/freenode/ip.70.162.243.235) has joined #fibmeeting
[14:36] TheMage Jasinlee another person "The Doktor" [EMAIL REDACTED]
[14:36] jasinlee Or, if we can locate a qualified electrical engineer they can review the code in its current state (to show that it does provide the code/design is real)
[14:37] usao Had network hicchup, was the timeline mentioned?
[14:37] kinder112 so what we are looking at now is delivery earliest delivery in October?
[14:38] jasinlee Yes, that is the new estimate they gave me.
[14:38] jasinlee That should also answer usao correct?
[14:38] usao Yes. Thanks
[14:38] kinder112 are they not bound to any deadline?
[14:38] TheMage im going to invite him, looks like he is an investors based on his postings
[14:38] usao Has any news about power ratios been provided?
[14:39] jasinlee He is themage
[14:39] jasinlee Go for it
[14:39] TheMage thanks and done
[14:39] jasinlee usao, give me a moment I will pull them up.
[14:40] -->| The_Doctor ([email protected]/web/freenode/ip.96.248.105.24) has joined #fibmeeting
[14:40] TheMage welcome The_Doctor
[14:41] The_Doctor Hello, sorry if my pm was abrupt.
[14:41] TheMage its ok
[14:41] jasinlee We expected people to pop in no worries.
[14:42] The_Doctor Have we discussed the current state of the ASICs yet?
[14:42] kinder112 a little
[14:42] TheMage to recap The_doctor, new delivery date in oct, Jasin has tossed out some suggestions to show tangiable work is being done, and he is looking at the power ratio right now
[14:43] The_Doctor That sounds good, what about extra hashrate to compensate for delay?
[14:43] jasinlee usao, the changes to the code do change the power numbers slightly but still within the original estimates. We are looking at about 3 watts per chip @ 3.5mhs or if we push more power 7 watts @ 5mhs+ per chip based on current simulations.
[14:43] usao As we all know, things move fast in the Crypto world. Is any though being made about being competative in the face of GAW Hashlets and similar products?
[14:44] TheMage What I listed was discussed, feel free to ask anything else the_doctor
[14:45] jasinlee The_Doctor, I wanted to see as a test group if you would be interested in the solutions we were discussing beforehand. Since there are a range of services we are making I was going to ask if no fee trading, and except from fees period on our services in addition to site profit shares being added to the shares you currently hold would work for you.
[14:45] jasinlee exempt*
[14:45] jasinlee not except
[14:46] jasinlee Basically we will never sell any site XFS shares, your shares would become both.
[14:47] The_Doctor I'm not sure what was listed, did not anticipate being in this meeting. Jasin, I'll need to consider things a bit, maybe.
[14:47] jasinlee Ok, just mull on it, I dont know if everyone will like that solution, but wanted to offer.
[14:47] kinder112 I think it would be best to compensate Asic with Asic specs
[14:47] usao Can you share the name of the ASIC engineering compnay or the FAB?
[14:48] The_Doctor Competive hashrate is greatest interest, TBH.
[14:49] jasinlee usao, The company that we are utilizing has already been getting emails about working with us, but the contract states their name is to remain confidential. The foundry is [REDACTED], but if I release the name of the design house that causes issues.... [REDACTED]is a [REDACTED] company. They dont like anything crypto and if they find out a chip is being made there for crypto they will pull production once we get to that point.
[14:50] TheMage As an FYI, since we got a late start I will be keeping this meeting open until 4:30PM eastern time
[14:50] usao No problem. Just checking.
[14:51] jasinlee We basically have to send them info stating the chips are for high frequency trading. If it says anything else they will shut it down.
[14:51] TheMage jasinlee, does that last part need to be redacted about [REDACTED]?
[14:51] jasinlee It would be best yes.
[14:51] jasinlee Its kinda 50/50 too, there are only 2 companies out there so its a sticky situation across all crypto.
[14:51] TheMage Ok, I will do so.
[14:52] usao How can FIB be competative against GAW when they are selling 1MHs @ $16 today, not Oct?
[14:53] jasinlee The chips after we calculate in the PCB and other parts only comes out to about 20$ per chip (and thats not at high volumes)
[14:53] The_Doctor usao, what is the power usage? Zues thunder is 18-20MHs @~500w.
[14:53] usao How many are planned in the production run?
[14:54] usao The_Doctor, Jasin reported approx 3W/3.5MHs
[14:54] jasinlee This one was originally to be 7,000, but with the refunds we issued we are reducing the order to about 1500 chips (we have issued most refunds already, I am not counting out the ones on pending refunds)
[14:54] TheMage Jasinlee another person "gentamicin" [EMAIL REDACTED]
[14:55] jasinlee one sec themage
[14:55] The_Doctor usao, I was asking what the gaw power was. I think this is where fib has advantage.
[14:55] TheMage thank you
[14:55] usao jasinlee, how dependent upon the XMH shares are you to be able to pay for the chips?
[14:55] TheMage this will be the last person I allow
[14:56] usao The_Doctor, Oh, sorry. I don't think they reported power, since Hashlets are hosted (probably virtual hashrate on somthing else...)
[14:56] jasinlee Usao, the only thing it really effects is company operating funds, which in turn is causing the refund delays and also why we are doing internal audits of every tx that was processed in the wallet to determine the amount of money stolen.
[14:56] jasinlee Themage, he is good.
[14:56] TheMage thank you
[14:57] kinder112 [REDACTED]
[14:57] kinder112 [REDACTED]
[14:57] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[14:58] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[14:58] usao [REDACTED]
[14:58] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[14:59] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[14:59] -->| Gentamicin_ ([email protected]/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.101.103.41.209) has joined #fibmeeting
[14:59] usao When can we expect to see the 'miner' section of the website active with accounts?
[14:59] The_Doctor What about the current state of the website? It really doesn't inspire confidence.
[14:59] TheMage welcome Gentamicin
[15:00] Gentamicin_ Hi
[15:00] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[15:00] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[15:00] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[15:01] The_Doctor Jasin, do you handle the refunds personally?
[15:01] jasinlee I do now yes, we have a queue we built onto the database we utilize.
[15:02] usao I head mention that the chip design will be open sourced? Is that correct? Does that affect the requirement for hosting?
[15:02] The_Doctor Please put my refund on hold until I consider thing further.
[15:02] jasinlee It is something I have wanted to do since we started the project, but the community reaction was not as expected so the open source will likely have to wait.
[15:03] Gentamicin_ Hi Jasin , not sure if this is asked, what is the minimum hashrate now
[15:03] jasinlee The_Doctor, ok will do.
[15:03] TheMage please ease up on the back to back questions if possible guys so Jasin has time to respond. Thank you
[15:03] jasinlee Getamincin_, 3.5mhs is the estimate.
[15:04] Gentamicin_ 3.5 per XMh ?
[15:04] jasinlee Per chip, XMH is 14mhs
[15:04] The_Doctor 1XMH = 4 chips?
[15:05] The_Doctor Sorry.
[15:05] jasinlee Depends on the yield.
[15:05] Carnth jasinlee: You plan to ship ASICs directly. Skipping hosting. correct?
[15:05] The_Doctor Yield?
[15:05] jasinlee Carnth, yes the hosting wont be necessary in my opinion any longer.
[15:05] jasinlee The_Doctor, some chips will perform better than others.
[15:06] jasinlee So depending on the speed of the chips on average, the amount of chips may change.
[15:06] kinder112 do you have some ETA on logging page?
[15:06] jasinlee Its been down for like 5 days I think?
[15:07] jasinlee The developers we hired told me yesterday the code is done now and can be tested monday. I think we should be able to put the login page live a few days after is my hope, but dont quote me on that one they are not online for me to check.
[15:08] Gentamicin_ Do you intend to match gawminers vault breaker batch 1?
[15:08] kinder112 good to hear that its something in near future
[15:08] usao jasinlee, I think a lot of the negativity on the forum is due in part to your lack of presence. Is this ASIC project a high enough priority for you or someone from the team to be more active there?
[15:09] usao jasinlee, im thinking somthing along the lines of Zeus_Sarah, who's the smiling face of Zeus...
[15:09] jasinlee I can have sharon begin talking on the forums too, but the issue I have run into is that several people are consistently ignoring responses and just burying the thread. So I did not want to have her getting blasted when I have thicker skin.
[15:10] TheMage give jasin some time to answer please
[15:11] jasinlee I wish the forum had something like a newbie zone so we could filter out the spam accounts, but until that happens I have other work for sharon to do so I cant have her getting yelled at all day.
[15:11] usao Sorry, not trying to rush things. I was just thinking that more of a presense would help tone-down the forum somehwat.
[15:11] jasinlee I agree though usao, it would help probably, but seems futile half the time.
[15:13] jasinlee Gentamicin, we locked the rates to 14mhs per share, not sure what GAW's speeds are now that we have a set rate.
[15:13] usao To summarize what I understand... The ASIC's are expected around Oct timeframe, 1XMH=14MHs and power should be under 1W/MHs, with no hosting requirement. There are sufficuent funds to product roughly 1500 chips.
[15:13] jasinlee Correct
[15:13] The_Doctor Jasin, I really think it would help if you just posted brief updates every few days. Asics moving along, tapeout in ~2 weeks, exchange code had some bugs, probably a few more weeks, etc. If a date is just a guess, say so, etc.
[15:14] The_Doctor Silence is NOT golden
[15:14] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[15:14] TheMage usao, would you mind if I posted what you did as a summery along with the logs here?
[15:15] usao @TheMage, sure, is there anyother points I missed in the summary?
[15:15] TheMage [REDACTED]
[15:15] jasinlee The_Doctor, I will do more updates then if you think it will help, I have been trying to do one every 3-4 days. But, no longer arguing with people 24/7.
[15:15] |<-- Gentamicin_ has left freenode (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
[15:16] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[15:16] jasinlee [REDACTED]
[15:16] -->| Gentamicin_ ([email protected]/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.101.103.41.209) has joined #fibmeeting
[15:16] Gentamicin_ Gaw appears to be 750mhs for 8999$
[15:17] usao jasinlee, I would strongly suggest a greater forum presense. If the negativly is getting you down, just ignore the negative posts and just focus on progress updates and your estimates of the facts/timelines.
[15:17] Gentamicin_ Gaw appears to be 750mhs for 8999$
[15:17] The_Doctor I think it will help. Some have decided you're the antichrist, but more reasonable people should be happy with the simple facts.
[15:17] |<-- Gentamicin_ has left freenode (Client Quit)
[15:18] jasinlee I will try to be more vocal then, it seemed like I was just fueling their mania so I backed off.
[15:18] usao Gentamicin_, The Hashlets are around $16/MHs I think.
[15:18] Carnth I also want people to continue to use the "reprot to mod" on troll posts.
[15:18] jasinlee Carnth, maybe do some sort of a newbie section to deter the trolling?
[15:19] usao Im not saying Zues is an Angel, but they stayed communicative at a minimum with a weekly update.
[15:19] TheMage We have discussed this in the past, and we do not feel it is prudent Jasinlee
[15:19] Carnth I know you asked for that, but implemeting something like affect the entire forum.
[15:19] jasinlee usao, I try to do one every few days, I will just up how often I do so then.
[15:20] usao I have noticed that the "mood" on Zeus tends to improve after weekly announcemnets...
[15:20] TheMage Jasinlee, perhaps a scheduled day for updates, such as Mondays, may help.
[15:20] TheMage Also, 10 minutes left for the meeting. Please ask any last minute questions now.
[15:21] kinder112 are you already in posession of some early engineering samples?
[15:22] jasinlee I do want to point out that the Litecoin Association is in no way affiliated with us, so please just leave them alone. Their involvement was never anything major to date, and now that hosted mining wont be required on launch there is 0 involvement.
[15:22] usao Im good with this.
[15:23] jasinlee kinder112, no not yet, when I get them in it will be about 3 weeks before everyone else has their miners about to ship.
[15:23] The_Doctor Jasin, any preliminary info on what the miners may look like, power supply used, standalone or USB, etc?
[15:23] usao Suggest weekly update include ASIC development progress, as well as in-house updates such as boards, formfactors, PSU requirements, RasPI requirements etc...
[15:23] jasinlee The PCB will be the same form factor as the open source one we posted on the forums. They will be standalone or clustered depending on the speeds purchased.
[15:24] The_Doctor And I assume there will be a batch 2, 3, etc?
[15:25] jasinlee For future batches we will review it after this one is completely resolved. I do not want to produce anything extra until we have something functional in hand and in stock.
[15:27] kinder112 is the [REDACTED] part confidential?
[15:27] usao I think I got what I was hoping to get from this meetgin. Want to offer thanks to @TheMage...
[15:27] Carnth kinder112: yes
[15:27] TheMage 3 minute awrning for close of meeting
[15:27] TheMage also you are welcome
[15:27] kinder112 so the actual transcript from this will be modified/greyed out?
[15:28] jasinlee And thank you for all your questions. If you want to PM me on the forum I generally get a email and reply directly pretty quickly.
[15:28] The_Doctor Thanks TheMage & Jasin, feel much better about things now.
[15:28] usao The sumary should probably include a note about the website progress, expectations.
[15:28] jasinlee Tomorrow I should have more info on the website. I think I actually did post a update on the website, but that got buried I think.
[15:28] kinder112 Thank you all this brings some light and hope to me
[15:29] usao Bye
[15:29] |<-- usao has left freenode (Quit: Page closed)
[15:30] jasinlee Thank you everyone, and especially Themage and carnth for setting this up.
[15:30] Carnth Thanks everyone.
[15:30] |<-- jasinlee has left freenode (Quit: Page closed)
[15:30] kinder112 ok so that's that
[15:30] kinder112 thanks and bye
[15:30] |<-- kinder112 has left freenode (Quit: Ciao)
[15:31] Carnth The actualy transcript will be modified to redact the fab name.

Offline atlosas

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 10:04:31 PM »
Summary for lazy people:
Asics are now expected in October (if it goes according to plan)
1 chip is 3.5 mh/s and less <1 watt per mh (expected)
Have money for 1500 chips. Planned 7000, but refunds happened. (that is only 375 shares, which isn't enough i think)
No company's name who makes chips because of the contract
Website to be completed soon with log in to accounts (few days)
No hosting

Offline rdnkjdi

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 10:18:36 PM »
What is the share/mhs?  Still 14mhs?

Offline atlosas

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 10:29:26 PM »
yes

Offline thorp

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 01:24:19 AM »
I did have to redact 2 things from this conversation unfortunately, one from a legal stance and another one because at this point in time it was very prudent to redact the other part (trust me, there are good reasons to do so).
Two things have been redacted. The name of the chip fabricator. And a portion of conversation, in the context of discussion of the ability of Fibonacci to pay for fabrication and pay for refunds: whether Fibonacci has sufficient funds.

Quote
[14:55]   usao   jasinlee, how dependent upon the XMH shares are you to be able to pay for the chips?
[14:55]   TheMage   this will be the last person I allow
[14:56]   usao   The_Doctor, Oh, sorry. I don't think they reported power, since Hashlets are hosted (probably virtual hashrate on somthing else...)
[14:56]   jasinlee   Usao, the only thing it really effects is company operating funds, which in turn is causing the refund delays and also why we are doing internal audits of every tx that was processed in the wallet to determine the amount of money stolen.
[14:56]   jasinlee   Themage, he is good.
[14:56]   TheMage   thank you
[14:57]   kinder112   [REDACTED]
[14:57]   kinder112   [REDACTED]
[14:57]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[14:58]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[14:58]   usao   [REDACTED]
[14:58]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[14:59]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[14:59]   -->|   Gentamicin_ ([email protected]/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.101.103.41.209) has joined #fibmeeting
[14:59]   usao   When can we expect to see the 'miner' section of the website active with accounts?
[14:59]   The_Doctor   What about the current state of the website? It really doesn't inspire confidence.
[14:59]   TheMage   welcome Gentamicin
[15:00]   Gentamicin_   Hi
[15:00]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[15:00]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[15:00]   jasinlee   [REDACTED]
[15:01]   The_Doctor   Jasin, do you handle the refunds personally?
[15:01]   jasinlee   I do now yes, we have a queue we built onto the database we utilize.

Since it has now become clear that Fibonacci's claims to be able to fund the manufacturing of 1,500 chips is nowhere near enough to cover all the ordered miners, can't this portion of the meeting be unredacted now?

There isn't much to hide anymore, and no good reason to hide it.


Offline TheMage

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 01:37:10 AM »

Two things have been redacted. The name of the chip fabricator. And a portion of conversation, in the context of discussion of the ability of Fibonacci to pay for fabrication and pay for refunds: whether Fibonacci has sufficient funds.

Since it has now become clear that Fibonacci's claims to be able to fund the manufacturing of 1,500 chips is nowhere near enough to cover all the ordered miners, can't this portion of the meeting be unredacted now?

There isn't much to hide anymore, and no good reason to hide it.


It's a legal matter, thats why it was redacted. Sorry but I can not post this section.

Offline rdnkjdi

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 04:12:43 PM »
How is it a legal matter if no NDA was signed? 

A.  Jasin agreed to come clean and tell the truth if certain information was "contained"

B.  Jasin said stuff that cannot add up - he stated the companies obligations (chips) were a fraction of what they really are.  So he obviously is not keeping his end of the bargain in coming clean / being honest in IRC meeting.

C. Meeting goers are expect to not look further into the information that makes no sense.  Because Jasin says not to.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 04:20:04 PM by rdnkjdi »

Offline TheMage

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 12:27:57 AM »
Trust me when I say its a legal mater. USAO can back me up on it.

Offline The Doktor

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 01:13:13 AM »
As TheMage says, it's a legal matter. Does not belong here on this forum.

Offline TheMage

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2014, 02:23:55 AM »
As TheMage says, it's a legal matter. Does not belong here on this forum.

Thanks for backing me up :).

Offline rdnkjdi

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 08:31:07 PM »
Just to summarize (this has been discussed in the Fib thread).  A tl;dr version (anyone correct me if I'm wrong)

1.  Foundry producing the chips cannot be contacted because if they find out it is crypto they will refuse to produce them even though they've been/will be paid.  (Chip production has not started yet)

2.  Not enough money to issue any more refunds - Jasin just has to do it from his personal funds as he gets the money.

3.  Chips are still in design phase.

4.  Chips are locked in at 14Mhs per chip which probably won't ROI unless somebody got a major Cachecoin discount.

5.  The guy who knows about ASIC production says there is no way this is in production because nothing makes sense.

6.  Jasin promised to update the website to reflect that it was involved in miners (us) a week and a half ago and still has nothing up there even mentioning the ASICs he sold.  It's now just an advertisement for XC/Cache.  There is no ongoing communication.

7.  Jasin stated that his chip obligation was less than half of what we calculated based off of adding everyone's orders up. 



Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 09:25:59 PM by rdnkjdi »

Offline Sukarti

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 09:17:44 PM »
Was the design firm ever contacted for proof of partnership?

The only useful information from the meeting was redacted.

Imagine that?

Offline CGMChick

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2014, 09:49:38 PM »
Hey, that's ASICs for you.

High risk, promise of high reward, actually get less than zero.

But don't worry, it's fine. I'll be ok on the day.

Offline phzi

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 06:15:17 PM »

Two things have been redacted. The name of the chip fabricator. And a portion of conversation, in the context of discussion of the ability of Fibonacci to pay for fabrication and pay for refunds: whether Fibonacci has sufficient funds.

Since it has now become clear that Fibonacci's claims to be able to fund the manufacturing of 1,500 chips is nowhere near enough to cover all the ordered miners, can't this portion of the meeting be unredacted now?

There isn't much to hide anymore, and no good reason to hide it.

It's a legal matter, thats why it was redacted. Sorry but I can not post this section.
If everything goes downhill, it's at least very obvious that TheMage is a co-conspirator to Jason's frauds...

Offline TheMage

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Re: Fib meeting notes from 8/24/2014
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 09:53:47 PM »

Two things have been redacted. The name of the chip fabricator. And a portion of conversation, in the context of discussion of the ability of Fibonacci to pay for fabrication and pay for refunds: whether Fibonacci has sufficient funds.

Since it has now become clear that Fibonacci's claims to be able to fund the manufacturing of 1,500 chips is nowhere near enough to cover all the ordered miners, can't this portion of the meeting be unredacted now?

There isn't much to hide anymore, and no good reason to hide it.

It's a legal matter, thats why it was redacted. Sorry but I can not post this section.
If everything goes downhill, it's at least very obvious that TheMage is a co-conspirator to Jason's frauds...

Consider this a verbal warning, stop with the slanderous remarks. I have done nothing but help in this situation for the benefit of the community.