LitecoinTalk Archive (READ ONLY)

Projects => Projects Late/Failed => Topic started by: AlphaTechnology on April 28, 2013, 07:12:58 PM

Title: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!
Post by: AlphaTechnology on April 28, 2013, 07:12:58 PM
PLEASE READ!

BIG NEWS FOR MINERS: https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=890.0

Greeting Miners! We can now be found on our own official forums here forum.alpha-t.net (http://forum.alpha-t.net); this forum will allow members of the Alpha Technology team to interact with the community directly under one roof. Please note as a result of this some things on this forum may now be unreliable/outdated.

Visit our website for up to date information: alpha-t.net/news (http://alpha-t.net/news) and to check out our latest miners: alpha-t.net/shop (http://alpha-t.net/shop)

The Basics:

We are aiming to reduce the power as much as possible so there is every chance it will be significantly lower, in any case this is the maximum we guarantee:

>=250 Mh/s for £5450 at <=1875 Watts
>=50 Mh/s for £1350 at <=375 Watts

Shipping Information: alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Shipping-Costs1.pdf (http://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Shipping-Costs1.pdf)

Batch 1 Loyalty Bonuses:

Here are the benefits we offer for ordering now and being a batch 1 customer:

1. Being able to order first as well as free shipping for batch 2
2. 10% off any future batch of your choice (subsequent batches will be significantly more powerful)

So order now and be a part of batch 1!

Information

Website: alpha-t.net (http://alpha-t.net)
General Enquiries & Support: [email protected]
Orders & Payments: [email protected]
Twitter: @UKAlpha
Forum: forum.alpha-t.net (http://forum.alpha-t.net)

Alpha Technology is a technology firm based in the UK, located in Manchester, comprising of a team of experienced IT and engineering specialists. Bringing together our expertise and that of our partners, we work towards providing hardware which is durable, powerful and cost-efficient to the crypto-hardware market.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: litecoinarnold on April 29, 2013, 12:23:05 AM
What's your expected hashrate/cost? Also using Spartan 6's with external ram?
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: miningdude on April 29, 2013, 12:58:11 AM
Keep us posted. There seems to be a number of lite coin fpgas in the works. Looking forward to reviewing this as it develops. Cheers! -Josh
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: jasinlee on April 29, 2013, 01:27:32 AM
If you need help finding documentation for the project let me know, I can direct you toward the resources you will need to develop the scrypt module. There is very little documentation to scrypt or fpga dev for the bitcoin fpgas, much less for litecoin. To keep you from spinning your wheels though just lemme know if you cannot find something. I may have it saved already from the last 6 months of our development.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on April 29, 2013, 03:18:37 AM
Simulations are currently taking place with the different FPGA's.And i believe we have the capability to reach our goals or surpass them due to a  professional company we will have working on this in full-force in the coming months.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 13, 2013, 01:38:57 PM
Just an update. We have ramped up the team and have our premises ready for when assembly starts. Working in collaboration with our design team abroad we have competence in all areas of FPGA design, and excellent contacts for any procurement (large scale pcb manufacturing, mounting, bulk FPGA etc..)

Currently we are in the final stages off fully implementing the Litecoin algorithm in FPGA (not only Scrypt but other algorithms which are stated  PBKDF2, HMAC-SHA256, SHA256 and SALSA20/8, some of which are open source available). Currently in a 12 week process, our tech lead software engineer  has taken over and is developing the communication between board and PC. Everything we are doing is custom made from bottom up, this gives us the advantage of ironing out all details. We are designing the FPGA in the structured manner you would get working on military grade systems, giving you an idea of the sort of proficiency and quality were aiming towards.

In the next 2 weeks we will be porting our design onto an off the shelf board, giving us the ability to test the system and optimise it, working towards our results we received during simulation. Then we can come up with the exact FPGA and block diagram that will result in the end product. Taking our large scale costs into account and a suitable pricing, were aiming towards a minimum of 500-800 kh/s per unit.

Our goal is to constantly provide detailed information on where we are at. Being a student in Electronic Engineering, so far i have learnt a lot myself. So i want to share our updates, and also to increase awareness and interest in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. And give you a glimpse of all the stages in a professional environment when it comes to FPGA design and development.

In my opinion its a great way to learn if your just an average enthusiast or deciding what to study in college or university! Also a guide to educate members of the crypto-currency community, especially when your being told by companies (not naming any names) that it takes 3 months to design and produce an ASIC!

We will also be providing images and videos of the different stages in development. In the next few weeks showing you the first ever Litecoin dedicated FPGA in action.

As we are producing this FPGA for the community, its important we get feedback! Our website will be launching soon. But follow us on twitter for early sneak peak updates www.twitter.com/ukalpha
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: Mattzees on July 13, 2013, 02:21:54 PM
Until you have units in production, ACTUALLY SHIPPING TO CUSTOMERS, and working as-promised, this will be considered a scam.

And just FYI- people are already getting 500-800 Khs per GPU right now, so I'm assuming that was a typo.

That being said, I wish you the best of luck.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: Wolf0 on July 13, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
Until you have units in production, ACTUALLY SHIPPING TO CUSTOMERS, and working as-promised, this will be considered a scam.

And just FYI- people are already getting 500-800 Khs per GPU right now, so I'm assuming that was a typo.

That being said, I wish you the best of luck.

An FPGA can get no more hashes per second than a GPU and still be competitive due to the reduced power usage.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 13, 2013, 06:54:09 PM
Thanks for your response Mattzees. We are not scamming anyone but letting our intentions known and any further updates on our progress. We will be doing a demonstration of our prototype and showing you guys a press release from our well known partners. However, the next stage will be showing the Litecoin implementation actually running on an off the shelf board as a proof of concept, which i havn't seen as of yet from anyone. From this we can optimise and come up with the exact FPGA + board configuration we will be going with.

As iv'e stated on the bitcoin forum, i'm currently busy and will only be replying to posts i feel the need to respond to, and also any updates in our progress.

Once again thank you for your interest.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: potato on July 15, 2013, 05:44:19 AM
And just FYI- people are already getting 500-800 Khs per GPU right now, so I'm assuming that was a typo.
An FPGA can get no more hashes per second than a GPU and still be competitive due to the reduced power usage.
What about the cost of the FPGA set up ?

A HD7950 graphic card can get to high 600's to low 700's in a typical set up, unless the FPGA's price is half to one third of the HD7950 (and remember, ATI gonna come up with their HD9xxx series in 6 month time, which means, HD7xxx GPUs gonna have another round of price slashing) I don't think many will convert to the FPGA.
Title: What's the memory requirement for the FPGA setup ?
Post by: potato on July 15, 2013, 06:56:58 AM
As mentioned in http://cryptocur.com/litecoin/ mining litecoin is a memory intensive operation.

If you guys are going to FPGA, are you going to tap the Motherboard's RAM ?

Assuming that it's possible to chain the FPGAs on one computer, how much GB of RAM each FPGA module needs ?

Right now as we are using ATI's graphic card in mining litecoins, and in cards such as the Sapphire HD7950, each card already comes with 3GB of RAM.

I've read some where that Litecoin uses about 2GB RAM.

Will the FPGA set up use as much RAM as the graphic cards ? Meaning, each FPGA module consuming 2GB of RAM ?

As I have just started the mining (and only bought one HD7950) I am open to the idea of using the FPGA to mine. If you guys can give us some indication on the basic requirement of your FPGA set up, maybe it would help us in better prepare our rigs so that when we are to change to the FPGAs our motherboards can be tapped into operations.

Thank you.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 15, 2013, 07:40:25 PM
The overall speed is not an issue. It's the efficiency of Cost/Performance. We can scale up a lower speed (500-800 kilohash/s), that would depend on exactly what configuration we are going with, which will be explained in a few weeks time. And in response to Potato, memory is not an issue at all with FPGA's. In the Bitcoin community everybody is just familiar to FPGA devices that are specialised for bitcoin mining, requiring little additional high speed interfaced memory with the FPGA modules. Why would the FPGA developers waste money on interfacing high speed ddr3 memory in the GB's if there will be no use for it in bitcoin mining? On the other hand i have seen many medium sized off-the-shelf boards with 16 GB + DDR3 memory (2-4 GB per FPGA). And the memory interfacing and the modules are in fact far cheaper than the FPGA's. Memory on FPGA's are not an issue at all, all it comes down to is your board design and configuration.

The setup would be made as easy as possible. Plug in, power up. We will be working with Luke the developer of BFGMiner for mining software support in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: potato on July 16, 2013, 02:15:39 AM
And in response to Potato, memory is not an issue at all with FPGA's. In the Bitcoin community everybody is just familiar to FPGA devices that are specialised for bitcoin mining, requiring little additional high speed interfaced memory with the FPGA modules.
Dear Sir,

With due respect we are talking about Litecoin, where the one thing that differentiates the two - at least according to the information that I've gathered online, such as ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117221.msg1257520#msg1257520 ) and ( http://litecoin.info/Comparison_between_Litecoin_and_Bitcoin#CPU_mining_vs_GPU_mining), for example - is that Litecoin is very memory intensive.


Why would the FPGA developers waste money on interfacing high speed ddr3 memory in the GB's if there will be no use for it in bitcoin mining? On the other hand i have seen many medium sized off-the-shelf boards with 16 GB + DDR3 memory (2-4 GB per FPGA). And the memory interfacing and the modules are in fact far cheaper than the FPGA's. Memory on FPGA's are not an issue at all, all it comes down to is your board design and configuration.
Sir,

That is exactly the information that I was asking for - information such as the memory requirement for each of the FPGA that we will hook up into our rig (with motherboards) so that we, the miners, can be better prepared in choosing the right kind of motherboards now so to ease the transition from Graphic Cards to FPGAs.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: mike8675309 on July 16, 2013, 02:34:43 AM
That is exactly the information that I was asking for - information such as the memory requirement for each of the FPGA that we will hook up into our rig (with motherboards) so that we, the miners, can be better prepared in choosing the right kind of motherboards now so to ease the transition from Graphic Cards to FPGAs.

While I have no idea of what device this original poster is planning to use, an example of FPGA devices with high speed memory access would be the Nallatech 395 which uses the  Altera Stratix-V, an OpenCL FGPA chip on an accelerator card which supports up to 4 independent banks of 8GB of DDR3 memory at 1600MT/s per bank.  It also has 8 lane PCIe support with max network bandwidth of 10GB/s.   Again I doubt this would be the device they are looking at, but somewhere between this, and those used for bitcoins is a middle ground.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: jasinlee on July 16, 2013, 05:30:44 PM
That is exactly the information that I was asking for - information such as the memory requirement for each of the FPGA that we will hook up into our rig (with motherboards) so that we, the miners, can be better prepared in choosing the right kind of motherboards now so to ease the transition from Graphic Cards to FPGAs.

While I have no idea of what device this original poster is planning to use, an example of FPGA devices with high speed memory access would be the Nallatech 395 which uses the  Altera Stratix-V, an OpenCL FGPA chip on an accelerator card which supports up to 4 independent banks of 8GB of DDR3 memory at 1600MT/s per bank.  It also has 8 lane PCIe support with max network bandwidth of 10GB/s.   Again I doubt this would be the device they are looking at, but somewhere between this, and those used for bitcoins is a middle ground.

Not to mention the 15k price tag :P
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 24, 2013, 01:07:55 AM
Update: We have been able to get the Litecoin algorithm working in FPGA. However, after further analysis we realised that FPGA is not the correct platform for this algorithm in terms of high-speed hashrate, it is possible however not financially or efficiently viable. This is primarily, because of the design of the Scrypt algorithm, there are few loops which require a lot of memory and all operations have to be sequential which cannot be made parallel, so you will not be able to get high speeds. The algorithm was designed in this way to avoid hacking.

The problem with FPGA is that it cannot work at very high frequency. An example is we have seen 800 Mhz in Zynq series. The fastest memory available to an FPGA is on itself which is the block ram. And that we don't have in abundance. This is something which is present in GPU boards though.

You need to physically implement the algorithm on an FPGA in order to actually see how in depth the algorithm works, simulations are not enough. So our efforts have been beneficial in order to come up with a better method of litecoin hashing. We will be releasing a full analysis report as a proof of concept of the algorithm on an FPGA anyway in the near future.

The implementation has been beneficial to us as a team and most importantly our well established partners, in order to get fully familiar with the algorithm itself. So it has given us an in depth knowledge in our new design to overcome the limitations of an FPGA in this case. (will be disclosing who our partners are after our official press releases).

Therefore, We believe the demand is high enough to go ahead with this. We are working on a fabric based on a GPGPU design, as the only way to speed up a sequential algorithm is by overclocking or choosing a fabric which can run at very high speeds and has got lots of memory. As GPGPU implementations have different syntaxes than that of FPGA's, we will be taking advantage of our partner's expertise and connections in manufacturing in this area.

Not only is this a better high speed choice as an end product for miners, it is also business wise for us as we can take advantage of economies of scale, and lower cost per unit therefore lower price for the customers (FPGA's are much more expensive). Our actual design will be reaching speeds in the 1000s Kilohashes/second.

We are in early development and much more information will be coming soon. For now visit our website or follow us on twitter for early development updates.

 

Website: www.alpha-t.net

Twitter: www.twitter.com/UKAlpha

Company Name: Alpha Technology (INT) LTD

company Number: 8483921

Established Partner (Will be disclosing soon)
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: kramble on July 24, 2013, 01:16:04 AM
Huge Update: We have been able to get the Litecoin algorithm working in FPGA. However, after further analysis we realised that FPGA is not the correct platform for this algorithm in terms of high-seed hashrate

Tell us something new, scrypt was designed that way. As for the rest of your post, its just marketing speak. Given my (very limited) experience with fpga litecon mining, I'm backing jasinlee's project as the most likely to come up trumps. Lets just wait for some real verified results shall we? (I can give 1kHash/sec as a starter, since noone else seems to have posted anything verifiable  :P )
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: mhysa on July 24, 2013, 02:09:13 AM
Our actual design will be reaching speeds in the 1000s Kilohashes/second.
At what cost? What price point are you aiming for? And can you narrow down what you mean by 1000s? Is it closer to 2,000 Kh/s or greater than 10,000 Kh/s?

Established Partner (Will be disclosing soon)

I hope your secret established partner isn't BFL.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 24, 2013, 02:38:02 AM
Thanks for your reply, as you already know we are still in early development, and it's good if you understand the finance and manufacturing side of things before you ever think to pre-order or purchase shares in an 'IPO'. First of all Bitcoin algorithm (double SHA-256) could easily be implemented in an FPGA, it is not memory intensive at all and Bitcoin was NOT developed to be FPGA resistant. You could maximise hardware efficiency with a Bitcoin FPGA. Now lets look at it from a manufacturing point of view, at the time when Bitcoin FPGA's were released, cost-efficient powerful FPGA's were being used (Spartan-6 LX150). However, even then cost wise FPGA's are expensive, as they are really designed from prototyping. Example ModMiner Quad 900 mh/s for $1,069. The cheapest was the Bitforce BFL FPGA, 832 mh/s for $600. BFL having a lot of funding and being a somewhat big player in the community must of had connections with a limited supplier to be able to sell their product for that price, as the number of BFL FPGA's being sold was very limited in order to sell that cheap, and indeed it was. Look at the volume of ASIC's they are selling now, which is easily financially viable due to the LOW per unit cost of an ASIC (high NRE).

We had this in mind, but thought there could be a way to shortcut the FPGA implementation after actually physically doing it. But it isn't possible for the reasons i stated in my last post, and trust me, we are working with our partners who have over 150 employees, hardware and software experts in FPGA design with many years of experience (i wish i could tell you who they are, but you will have to wait a few weeks before they release official news release). That being said, now look at Litecoin, it contains not only Scrypt, but also many other algorithms, and has forcefully made some operations that cannot be made parallel. If Bitcoin FPGA's were barely profitable and high priced and only limited in quantity (they just paved the way for ASIC), what makes you think an unknown developer with no hardware experience making an IPO (which has clear fraud issues) can even compete with power/cost of a Bitcoin FPGA at the time Bitcoin FPGA's were up for sale. Which was generally even higher than 1$ per megahash. It's impossible as the Litecoin algorithm also contains SHA-256 algorithm aswell as many others including Scrypt, which ALL needs to be hashed, so Bitcoin is always going to be multitude times FPGA cost effective. We will release a proof of concept to show this and a full report, if anyone is stating they have exact FPGA hashing figures in the 2MH/s even at $5,000 (thats minimum) area that means they are in the late stages of development, and can easily show you a video/image proof of that.

On the other hand we are taking a far realistic approach specialized for the characteristics of the actual algorithm. Not only that our partners who are a great addition (most likely biggest) to the crypto-currency hardware market, which gives us access to facilities/manufacturing/economies of scale and are direct partners with companies like Texas Instruments.

I'm not bashing any competitors, i'm just being realistic from a hardware manufacturing point of view, which is the best point of view you'll get in this matter. And what to expect when certain projects fail, due to unrealistic expectations or fraud.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: jasinlee on July 24, 2013, 03:44:27 AM
Thanks for your reply, as you already know we are still in early development, and it's good if you understand the finance and manufacturing side of things before you ever think to pre-order or purchase shares in an 'IPO'. First of all Bitcoin algorithm (double SHA-256) could easily be implemented in an FPGA, it is not memory intensive at all and Bitcoin was NOT developed to be FPGA resistant. You could maximise hardware efficiency with a Bitcoin FPGA. Now lets look at it from a manufacturing point of view, at the time when Bitcoin FPGA's were released, cost-efficient powerful FPGA's were being used (Spartan-6 LX150). However, even then cost wise FPGA's are expensive, as they are really designed from prototyping. Example ModMiner Quad 900 mh/s for $1,069. The cheapest was the Bitforce BFL FPGA, 832 mh/s for $600. BFL having a lot of funding and being a somewhat big player in the community must of had connections with a limited supplier to be able to sell their product for that price, as the number of BFL FPGA's being sold was very limited in order to sell that cheap, and indeed it was. Look at the volume of ASIC's they are selling now, which is easily financially viable due to the LOW per unit cost of an ASIC (high NRE).

We had this in mind, but thought there could be a way to shortcut the FPGA implementation after actually physically doing it. But it isn't possible for the reasons i stated in my last post, and trust me, we are working with our partners who have over 150 employees, hardware and software experts in FPGA design with many years of experience (i wish i could tell you who they are, but you will have to wait a few weeks before they release official news release). That being said, now look at Litecoin, it contains not only Scrypt, but also many other algorithms, and has forcefully made some operations that cannot be made parallel. If Bitcoin FPGA's were barely profitable and high priced and only limited in quantity (they just paved the way for ASIC), what makes you think an unknown developer with no hardware experience making an IPO (which has clear fraud issues) can even compete with power/cost of a Bitcoin FPGA at the time Bitcoin FPGA's were up for sale. Which was generally even higher than 1$ per megahash. It's impossible as the Litecoin algorithm also contains SHA-256 algorithm aswell as many others including Scrypt, which ALL needs to be hashed, so Bitcoin is always going to be multitude times FPGA cost effective. We will release a proof of concept to show this and a full report, if anyone is stating they have exact FPGA hashing figures in the 2MH/s even at $5,000 (thats minimum) area that means they are in the late stages of development, and can easily show you a video/image proof of that.

On the other hand we are taking a far realistic approach specialized for the characteristics of the actual algorithm. Not only that our partners who are a great addition (most likely biggest) to the crypto-currency hardware market, which gives us access to facilities/manufacturing/economies of scale and are direct partners with companies like Texas Instruments.

I'm not bashing any competitors, i'm just being realistic from a hardware manufacturing point of view, which is the best point of view you'll get in this matter. And what to expect when certain projects fail, due to unrealistic expectations or fraud.

Wow, you really tried hard to pull a passive aggressive offhanded insult there.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: polishboy1098 on July 24, 2013, 02:45:01 PM
The only one that I think committed any fraud was you. You claimed that you have over 150 employees working on this project yet you only now realize that scrypt is memory intensive, and not able to be done in parallel. That is one of the main selling points of scrypt that it is memory intensive and FPGA/asic resistant because this. Either your whole team had been doing NOTHING until now or you have no team.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: Wolf0 on July 25, 2013, 06:38:43 AM
The only one that I think committed any fraud was you. You claimed that you have over 150 employees working on this project yet you only now realize that scrypt is memory intensive, and not able to be done in parallel. That is one of the main selling points of scrypt that it is memory intensive and FPGA/asic resistant because this. Either your whole team had been doing NOTHING until now or you have no team.

Or, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he has terrible communication with his engineers.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 26, 2013, 04:40:15 AM
Thanks for your reply. I merely stated our partner has over 150 employees. That doesn't mean all of them are working simultaneously on this specific project. Just stating our range of experience in different areas of development. And even though it is memory intensive, it is still a good idea to test all hardware options and variables before committing to the final architecture. We have been told by our partners to not release any information on our partnership till more work is done. But when we do in the coming weeks hopefully your concerns will be put to rest.

We also believe it is a good idea for us to only release a development update when we have reached bigger milestones. So no more information or replies will be given till that stage.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: jk_14 on July 26, 2013, 09:38:13 AM
And even though it is memory intensive, it is still a good idea to test all hardware options and variables before

Also is a good idea, even earlier - to search a bit litecoin forum...
Just to avoid such sense announcements: "After our deep research - we've discovered scrypt is memory intensive"
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on July 26, 2013, 12:23:39 PM
Our Scrypt implementation on an FPGA (proof of concept) has been fully analysed and documented in a report for public access. You can download the .pdf file on this link https://mega.co.nz/#!AtFC3YLY!ZK_DB2kyXsasPHiZlV9uNH1V_cVYAlO908ut_7qR7qY
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: kramble on July 26, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
You may want to amend that report slightly, I don't recall any place named "Manchestar, England" (sic), and I only live a hundred or so miles away. Otherwise it looks fairly accurate. I'll give you another data point for your maximum hash rates. I'm getting 1.12kHash/sec at 30MHz on a DE0-Nano ALTERA EP4CE22 (and that's only an initial naive implementation).
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: razorfishsl on August 05, 2013, 11:58:48 PM
Yep
 I read the report and the mix seems out.....

I'm seeing ~225us @100mhz...
rom mix 1024 times x 2 Salsa x 11

RF
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: xus on August 07, 2013, 01:32:20 PM
26/07/2013 Update Our Scrypt implementation on an FPGA (proof of concept) has been fully analysed and documented in a report for public access. You can download the .pdf file on this link http://alpha-t.net/blogs/news/8373831-litecoin-miner-development-update-26-07-2013

Such things should be really done in LaTeX... would look way more professional.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: razorfishsl on September 01, 2013, 01:33:14 AM
26/07/2013 Update Our Scrypt implementation on an FPGA (proof of concept) has been fully analysed and documented in a report for public access. You can download the .pdf file on this link http://alpha-t.net/blogs/news/8373831-litecoin-miner-development-update-26-07-2013

Such things should be really done in LaTeX... would look way more professional.

I don't see how some guy in a rubber diving suit is going to make them look any more professional.....
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: Wolf0 on September 02, 2013, 04:25:49 AM
26/07/2013 Update Our Scrypt implementation on an FPGA (proof of concept) has been fully analysed and documented in a report for public access. You can download the .pdf file on this link http://alpha-t.net/blogs/news/8373831-litecoin-miner-development-update-26-07-2013

Such things should be really done in LaTeX... would look way more professional.

I don't see how some guy in a rubber diving suit is going to make them look any more professional.....

I hope you're joking. Either that or you're incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: pmull on September 02, 2013, 11:38:13 AM
Quote
I hope you're joking. Either that or you're incredibly stupid.

Wolf0, you are right here,
razorfishsl is incredibly stupid, because -> latex != neoprene
Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: razorfishsl on September 05, 2013, 12:54:16 AM
Quote
I hope you're joking. Either that or you're incredibly stupid.

Wolf0, you are right here,
razorfishsl is incredibly stupid, because -> latex != neoprene

Actually you are both very stupid and poorly researched..... Neoprene is a fairly modern invention, I.E about 1930.... Dupont I believe....
I wonder what they used  before that?
Plus you both failed miserably.... to see the real joke.

Title: Re: LTC FPGA Miner
Post by: AlphaTechnology on September 21, 2013, 04:50:55 PM
21/09/2013 Update: Haven't updated in a while but we have been hard in development of our ASIC Miner. Don't want to dilvulge too much information till our launch date for obvious reason. Some statistics of our miner have been posted on Twitter today (www.twitter.com/UKAlpha).

And when we are nearing launch date more information will be provided along with a new name for this post as this is outdated and still discussing about old news (FPGA).

Happy Mining!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 13, 2013, 12:16:57 AM
13/10/2013 Update: We have been working hard with our design partners and have some great announcements to make. First of all we apologise for using the term "GPGPU" as our original plan was to use multiple graphics processing chips. In fact we have gone one step forward, after completing our pre-ASIC implementation of our FPGA design and handing it over to our ASIC manufacturer, we have reached excellent prototyping speeds to take this further. Each ASIC chip would perform at a MINIMUM of 500 kh/s, at around ~20 watts. With multiple chips on a PCI-E card we can reach 5,000 kh/s (200 watts) - 10,000 kh/s (400 watts) or HIGHER. The price you pay for each device will be in ratio lower per kilohash than say an AMD 7950. 

There are a few things to do before we start taking pre-orders and marketing. First of all is the design of how many chips we will put on each PCI-E board, it would  more practical to quickly assemble GPU sized PCI-E devices instead of larger devices. As it would result in higher postage costs and time to assemble would be longer if we manufactured more chip dense devices. We would rather the customer receive their devices as soon as possible after fabrication is completed.

Secondly, is the release of the names of our well known and trusted design partner and ASIC manufacturers. They will also release a few news articles from their end and their media sources. And then our own marketing campaign. Our partners have a large assembly line already which has been part of huge projects in the past, so we will be distributing and assembling direct from their location, so you can expect our assembling and shipping time to be much quicker than you may have seen with other ASIC devices.

We will NOT be taking any money from anybody until our well known partners have released news articles regarding our partnership and achievements. At that point it would mean we are ready to start taking in pre-orders to complete the manufacturing process. We also would like to fully complete our final ASIC assembly design, and for the ASIC manufacturer to complete it's final touches on the chip design.

We are nearing completion to start taking pre-orders, but we thought it would be good for the community to get some specific information and updates before everything kicks off from the media. We also want to thank all of the people who followed our progress and believed in us. The days of GPU mining for scrypt are soon to come to an end.

NOTE. We will be releasing a video of our FPGA (ASIC) prototype soon and some details of core hashing speed etc. Just for those people requiring more details. There is more work to be done, and speed/wattage is not final, but it will be around them figures we quoted. We also hope to put everyone's suspicions to an end in the build up to our official launch and pre-order date.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Magnate on October 13, 2013, 04:13:24 AM
I'm interested in a miner if the price isn't too high.

But to convince me you have a working product you really need to get prototypes in the hands of a trusted third party and have them post reviews.

Sorry but the incompetence of BFL and all the scams every where I just don't bother holding my breath until something is shown working.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Grinny on October 13, 2013, 08:43:33 AM
just some quick math to develop a thought about the possible price:
(i know that your final pricing will not look like this)

An AMD 7950 Windforce costs about 240 EUR and hashes for ~ 670kh/s - so this is a ratio of 2,791 kh/eur.
let's say your ratio is at 2,8 kh/eur (which is not really better but equal), your pricing would look like this:

10,000 kh/s ASIC: 3571 EUR (400 watts)
5,000 kh/s ASIC: 1785 EUR (200 watts)
500 kh/s ASIC: 178 EUR (20 watts)

Sounds good to me.
Interested and watching.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: donschoe on October 13, 2013, 10:46:40 AM
Sounds promising.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Xingqiaoyin on October 13, 2013, 12:14:18 PM
the pricing for this has to be equal to gpu in order for us to switch.
if i recall correctly asic only came out after bitcoin skyrocketed in value and proven its profitability.
right now no scrypt based coins has really made it as the next big thing after btc.
until you see litecoin creeping to at least 10 usd pe coin or heck maybe even 5 usd nobody is going to invest in ltc asic miner.
most of us ltc miners are btc miners who repurpose our rigs
with previous experince of being scammed by some notorious asic companies investing in unproven profitable scrypt coin produced by unknown asic miner is still a "maybe later" thought.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: donschoe on October 13, 2013, 01:40:42 PM
the pricing for this has to be equal to gpu in order for us to switch.

Well, no. I think the main advantage of ASIC/FPGA miners is the lower power consumption. And to be honest, currently my power costs are more worrying than the initial harware investments. (Eating up all "profit" at current prices.)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Xingqiaoyin on October 13, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
I remember BFL and their promised watt consumption, I recalled they also said 20 watts  ::)
The more I think about it I may not even want to pay the price for GPU for it.
GPU has real value in other market like gaming.
With BTC you can make real projection of ASIC miner value because BTC already has real practical values everywhere not just mtgox or btc-e.
The only real practical value of  [ltc] right now is by exchanging it in sites like btc-e.
Buying a rig to mine something that has real practical value dictated by btc-e is akin to speculation to me, much better to buy the coins directly at btc-e if you wanna speculate.



 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dunebuggy on October 13, 2013, 04:12:00 PM
I think this is good because theirs too much competition in Bitcoin ASIC, so profit wise its in a grey area coz its like who do u choose, this company or that company? Its been saturated. But scrypt being ASIC less, and its more profitable then bitcoin anyway.

Mining profit wise i would buy a couples

And subroro! Your being silly. Mining gets harder as more people mine because of price increasing. Price doesnt matter because the number of litecoins you mine increases then.

If you hate Litecoin so much why are you commenting. Bitcoin is also speculation like Litecoin. It doesnt mean you dont profit, ive profited more from Litecoin than Bitcoin. Money talks and all i care about is ROI. I've been spending a lot on energy on my gpu's. ASIC is like a god.  If the price is right and proof is given of notable experts (companies) dey r working with. Then i'm in.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: thitha2907 on October 14, 2013, 05:32:57 AM
last thing i remember that, asic (sha256) only bring profit to less than 300 people, later it only bring profit to asic company
Title: Re: Alpha Technology ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jk_14 on October 14, 2013, 10:28:27 AM
13/10/2013 Update: We have been working hard with our design partners and have some great announcements to make. First of all we apologise for using the term "GPGPU" as our original plan was to use multiple graphics processing chips. In fact we have gone one step forward, after completing our pre-ASIC implementation of our FPGA design and handing it over to our ASIC manufacturer, we have reached excellent prototyping speeds to take this further. Each ASIC chip would perform at a MINIMUM of 500 kh/s, at around ~20 watts. With multiple chips on a PCI-E card we can reach 5,000 kh/s (200 watts) - 10,000 kh/s (400 watts) or HIGHER. The price you pay for each device will be in ratio lower per kilohash than say an AMD 7950. 

There are a few things to do before we start taking pre-orders and marketing. First of all is the design of how many chips we will put on each PCI-E board, it would  more practical to quickly assemble GPU sized PCI-E devices instead of larger devices. As it would result in higher postage costs and time to assemble would be longer if we manufactured more chip dense devices. We would rather the customer receive their devices as soon as possible after fabrication is completed.

Secondly, is the release of the names of our well known and trusted design partner and ASIC manufacturers. They will also release a few news articles from their end and their media sources. And then our own marketing campaign. Our partners have a large assembly line already which has been part of huge projects in the past, so we will be distributing and assembling direct from their location, so you can expect our assembling and shipping time to be much quicker than you may have seen with other ASIC devices.

NOTE. We will NOT be taking any money from anybody until our well known partners have released news articles regarding our partnership and achievements. At that point it would mean we are ready to start taking in pre-orders to complete the manufacturing process. We also would like to fully complete our final ASIC assembly design, and for the ASIC manufacturer to complete it's final touches on the chip design.

We are nearing completion to start taking pre-orders, but we thought it would be good for the community to get some specific information and updates before everything kicks off from the media. We also want to thank all of the people who followed our progress and believed in us. The days of GPU mining for scrypt are soon to come to an end.


How many chips we will put on each PCI-E board?

Not more than 8-10, I think.

1. while one chip consumes 20W - from 160 to 200W would assure "backward compability" (in sense of heat per PCI-e card)
So, no extra modifications (extra cooling items) needed during upgrade from GPU's to your cards.

2. in case of card failure - it's better to have 2x 8-10 chips per card, than 1x 20 (I suppose price be more-less linear to number of chips)

and last but not least:
3. your first post was in April...
then in July your team have realised, that litecoin is memory intensive...
and in October - you have almost working: 2Mhash/s with 80W power consumption and for ~800 usd (approx. price for 3x 7950)

but, maybe somebody have missed, that means - it is "only" six times cheaper than in July:

"We will release a proof of concept to show this and a full report, if anyone is stating they have exact FPGA hashing figures in the 2MH/s even at $5,000 (thats minimum) area that means they are in the late stages of development, and can easily show you a video/image proof of that."

Amazing progres indeed (many times better than two other competitive projects, where I suppose people involved are not dumb as well).
So, in my opinion chances are: 90% scam / 10% legit, and it's definitely better to risk a lower amount of money, eventually, for one card order (with not 20, but only 8-10 chips on board)

Regards
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Groovy on October 14, 2013, 02:30:40 PM
Hi Alpha, have you reached tape-out yet? Any ETA on the first batch? Very interested  :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dunebuggy on October 14, 2013, 04:12:50 PM
Jk_14.. I think your referring to FPGA this is not an FPGA project anymore, it is ASIC.. which a lot of people said would happen instead of fpga because of fpga having limitations, jasinlee seems to disagree though with their fpga with no proof of people he is workin with or anything. And is accepting money alrdy!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: icfpgachn on October 14, 2013, 04:22:39 PM
the power efficient is an important parameter.
any normal CPU miner  power efficient will not get 5khs/W,no matter arm,x86,powerpc,MIPS,etc.
any fpga miner will not reach the power efficient limit 15khs/W with internal ram,nor 10khs/W with external ram,no matter DDR,DDR4,GDDR5.
LTC ASIC   power efficient will not get 50khs/W.
so,if you see a miner with  power  efficient over the limit,it is a scam.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: brib on October 14, 2013, 05:17:16 PM
Jk_14.. I think your referring to FPGA this is not an FPGA project anymore, it is ASIC.. which a lot of people said would happen instead of fpga because of fpga having limitations, jasinlee seems to disagree though with their fpga with no proof of people he is workin with or anything. And is accepting money alrdy!

AFAIK there is no way to build an ASIC with no FPGA prototype.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 05:34:11 PM
Jk_14.. I think your referring to FPGA this is not an FPGA project anymore, it is ASIC.. which a lot of people said would happen instead of fpga because of fpga having limitations, jasinlee seems to disagree though with their fpga with no proof of people he is workin with or anything. And is accepting money alrdy!

AFAIK there is no way to build an ASIC with no FPGA prototype.

Simulation. Its been done that way for decades. (And in the old days before FPGAs the prototypes were built out of MSI parts (74/4000 series) and wire-wrap).

Not that I'm condoning Alpha Techonology's project. ASIC just does not make sense given the current market-cap of LTC, the NRE is way too high. This project is going nowhere.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dunebuggy on October 14, 2013, 05:53:09 PM
If i have the option to buy something cheaper and faster (ASIC) why would i pay for an FPGA at $1.50/khash?  It makes perfect sense for me. From what i understand i dont know about ddd3 etc, maybe that wouldnt be required in an ASIC , e.g. if you can get e.g 50 khash from 8 cores, an ASIC having hundreds of cores per ASIC chip, would ddr3 interfacin rlly be required? I would like Krambles opinion on this too.

I suspect there is much work to be done from them, i doubt them figures are final. Making an Asic takes so long. Will just wait to see how this develops and who they r working with and their fpga prototype etc
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Ballistix on October 14, 2013, 06:01:12 PM
Damn, 5000 khash for 200w..... The thing I liked about scrypt coins was the apparent asic proof design of them. Now if this all legit and they start shipping as promised when they promised, we will see skyrocketing dificulty, once again pushing gpu's out. Full on expedited race to the bottom and the ones actually getting rich are those at alpha technology.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Xingqiaoyin on October 14, 2013, 06:12:11 PM
Ah yes the ASIC race, where the first adopters are rewarded with an ROI of weeks and will never see ROI if they started 2 months too late.
So I just put in the numbers 5000 khash/200watt @12c in burnside calculator.
Profit per month is 275 usd.
Seeing how fast ASIC obseletes, the most I'm going to pay for a preorder is 550 usd.
Let's see how attractive that price is for ALphaTechnology.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 06:17:10 PM
If i have the option to buy something cheaper and faster (ASIC) why would i pay for an FPGA at $1.50/khash?  It makes perfect sense for me. From what i understand i dont know about ddd3 etc, maybe that wouldnt be required in an ASIC , e.g. if you can get e.g 50 khash from 8 cores, an ASIC having hundreds of cores per ASIC chip, would ddr3 interfacin rlly be required? I would like Krambles opinion on this too.

I don't have any insider-knowledge of the ASIC market, so this is just lay comment, but I'm going to speak my part anyway. The problem is NRE (design and mask costs) which can range from perhaps $50k for a low-spec 130nm process to multiple millions for the sort of high end processes that current GPU s are built on. And an LTC ASIC has to compete with the latter, not the former. So if we ignore the MPW shuttle (which is only suitable for prototyping and university research projects, not volume production), that just leaves hardcopy FPGAs as being a possible contender here. These won't give the sort of performance level that could be expected from a true standard-cell or custom ASIC, but will improve on the current FPGA designs (jasinlee, koolio et al). I can only assume that this is what Alpha-Technology have in mind, so perhaps there is a product in the pipeline (though bear in mind the lead time here, jasinlee and koolio have spent months designing their products, and here comes Alpha-Technology with a more difficult solution, and they couldn't even get their FPGA design to perform at anywhere near its potential).

On the actual design itself. A true ASIC could contain sufficient on-chip RAM to be fully self-contained. If its using conventional off-chip DRAM then it has exactly the same problem as the FPGA designs and is limited by how many DRAM controllers and I/O ports can be fitted. I cannot honestly see how either solution can compete on cost with the current GPU video/mining cards, let alone the next generation. As for power consumption, ipfpgachn has posted above, and I'll defer to his expertise.

... and I've jabbered on far too long as usual and there are two intervening comments. POST.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 14, 2013, 06:53:16 PM
Been reading some of these comments. In response to Kramble, you are probably referring to the proof of concept (basic implementation) we released in a report. The goal of that was just to show the feasibility if we will be going ahead with an FPGA as a final product, which we are not. So it did not contain any optimisation.

In order to come up with a pre-asic implementation we implemented a single co-processing unit in FPGA at best of its throughput meaning things like pipelining, optimum memory utilization etc. In ASIC this will be multiplied in the 100s. We had minimum targets which we reached.

We will be releasing a video of our FPGA (ASIC) prototype soon and some details of core hashing speed etc. Just for those people requiring more details.

There is more work to be done, and speed/wattage is not final, but it will be around them figures we quoted.

We hope to put everyone's suspicions to an end in the build up to our official launch and pre-order date.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
(duplicate post, see below)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 07:17:17 PM
In order to come up with a pre-asic implementation we implemented a single co-processing unit in FPGA at best of its throughput meaning things like pipelining, optimum memory utilization etc. In ASIC this will be multiplied in the 100s. We had minimum targets which we reached.

That's going to be one very large ASIC if its using hundreds or cores (and 500kH/s is rather on the low side performance-wise for that kind of specification). What process node are you targeting?

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you are in OrSoC (KNC)'s league. Last I saw you were a two man team, yourself in Manchester and your developer, Amit Sinha in India. Could you elaborate on how you've expanded your team to support this project, and which partners you have contracted with?

Company details ...
Alpha Technology (Int) Ltd
64 Dickenson Road
Manchester
M14 5HF
Companies House Registration Number:   8483921

That's a residential address here (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=64+dickenson+road+manchester&sll=53.452871,-2.215862&gl=uk&hnear=64+Dickenson+Rd,+Manchester+M14+5HT,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=17)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 14, 2013, 07:25:53 PM
You just mentioned the head of engineers for our partner company, which was signed as his name on the report we released. If your good at using google, maybe you can figure out who they are, and what kind of expertise they have. That's not a residential address that's our accountancy firm. You do know registered address and trading address are two different things. Anything else?

More information coming soon!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 07:42:14 PM
You just mentioned the head of engineers for our partner company. If your good at using google, maybe you can figure out who they are, and what kind of expertise they have. That's not a residential address that's our accountancy firm. You do know registered address and trading address are two different things. Anything else?

Yup, I did use google. Your accountants office (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x487bb228de9244ad:0x27a32b6ba4730513!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttps://plus.google.com/102562642049584525570/photos?hl%3Den%26socfid%3Dweb:lu:kp:placepageimage%26socpid%3D1!5sM+Akram+%26+Co+-+Google+Search&sa=X&ei=-0RcUuetLaKV0QXQ-YHYBw&ved=0CJoBEKIqMA4).

Anyway this is getting off topic, so I'll await further details with breath abated (especially the process node and ASIC technology ... full custom, std cell, hardcopy?).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 14, 2013, 07:54:16 PM
Our office, we are also accountants. And that picture is a few years old, i wish Google would update to our new signs  :) And one of our partner's http://www.indiainfoline.com/Research/LeaderSpeak/Amit-Sinha-MD-and-CEO-Dexcel-Electronics-Designs/43387883.

Official announcements coming soon, with more relevant information.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 08:00:42 PM
Our office, we are also accountants. And that picture is a few years old, i wish Google would update to our new signs  :) And one of our partner's http://www.indiainfoline.com/Research/LeaderSpeak/Amit-Sinha-MD-and-CEO-Dexcel-Electronics-Designs/43387883.

Many thanks. There is too much cloak-and-dagger in this business. Its good to see some honest disclosure for a change (not just yourself, the other players also keep their details a little too secretive for my liking).

And I was rather tickled to see the name of the accountancy firm (your family name perhaps?). Good luck in your studies (I assume you're at Manchester University, they have a very good EE department).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 14, 2013, 08:17:24 PM
A few people are involved from our end.

I love how these forums go personal.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 08:30:52 PM
A few people are involved from our end. I personally worked as an Electronic Engineer for many years before moving into Accountancy.

I love how these forums go personal.

Not personal. I just like things to be truthful. I'll just quote the current OP in full, for the record.

PS And I'm pretty sure your post above said something about your little brother being the student before you edited it. Would you like to elaborate?

13/10/2013 Update We have been working hard with our design partners and have some great announcements to make. First of all we apologise for using the term "GPGPU" as our original plan was to use multiple graphics processing chips. In fact we have gone one step forward, after completing our pre-ASIC implementation of our FPGA design and handing it over to our ASIC manufacturer, we have reached excellent prototyping speeds to take this further. Each ASIC chip would perform at a MINIMUM of 500 kh/s, at around ~20 watts. With multiple chips on a PCI-E card we can reach 5,000 kh/s (200 watts) - 10,000 kh/s (400 watts) or HIGHER. The price you pay for each device will be in ratio lower per kilohash than say an AMD 7950. 

There are a few things to do before we start taking pre-orders and marketing. First of all is the design of how many chips we will put on each PCI-E board, it would  more practical to quickly assemble GPU sized PCI-E devices instead of larger devices. As it would result in higher postage costs and time to assemble would be longer if we manufactured more chip dense devices. We would rather the customer receive their devices as soon as possible after fabrication is completed.

Secondly, is the release of the names of our well known and trusted design partner and ASIC manufacturers. They will also release a few news articles from their end and their media sources. And then our own marketing campaign. Our partners have a large assembly line already which has been part of huge projects in the past, so we will be distributing and assembling direct from their location, so you can expect our assembling and shipping time to be much quicker than you may have seen with other ASIC devices.

We will NOT be taking any money from anybody until our well known partners have released news articles regarding our partnership and achievements. At that point it would mean we are ready to start taking in pre-orders to complete the manufacturing process. We also would like to fully complete our final ASIC assembly design, and for the ASIC manufacturer to complete it's final touches on the chip design.

We are nearing completion to start taking pre-orders, but we thought it would be good for the community to get some specific information and updates before everything kicks off from the media. We also want to thank all of the people who followed our progress and believed in us. The days of GPU mining for scrypt are soon to come to an end.

NOTE. We will be releasing a video of our FPGA (ASIC) prototype soon and some details of core hashing speed etc. Just for those people requiring more details. There is more work to be done, and speed/wattage is not final, but it will be around them figures we quoted. We also hope to put everyone's suspicions to an end in the build up to our official launch and pre-order date.

26/07/2013 Update Our Scrypt implementation on an FPGA (proof of concept) has been fully analysed and documented in a report for public access. You can download the .pdf file on this link http://alpha-t.net/blogs/news/8373831-litecoin-miner-development-update-26-07-2013

24/07/2013 Update: We have been able to get the Litecoin algorithm working in FPGA. However, after further analysis we realised that FPGA is not the correct platform for this algorithm in terms of high-speed hashrate, it is possible however not financially or efficiently viable. This is primarily, because of the design of the Scrypt algorithm, there are few loops which require a lot of memory and all operations have to be sequential which cannot be made parallel, so you will not be able to get high speeds. The algorithm was designed in this way to avoid hacking.

The problem with FPGA is that it cannot work at very high frequency. An example is we have seen 800 Mhz in Zynq series. The fastest memory available to an FPGA is on itself which is the block ram. And that we don't have in abundance. This is something which is present in GPU boards though.

You need to physically implement the algorithm on an FPGA in order to actually see how in depth the algorithm works, simulations are not enough. So our efforts have been beneficial in order to come up with a better method of litecoin hashing. We will be releasing a full analysis report as a proof of concept of the algorithm on an FPGA anyway in the near future.

The implementation has been beneficial to us as a team and most importantly our well established partners, in order to get fully familiar with the algorithm itself. So it has given us an in depth knowledge in our new design to overcome the limitations of an FPGA in this case. (will be disclosing who our partners are after our official press releases).

Therefore, We believe the demand is high enough to go ahead with this. We are working on a fabric based on a GPGPU design, as the only way to speed up a sequential algorithm is by overclocking or choosing a fabric which can run at very high speeds and has got lots of memory. As GPGPU implementations have different syntaxes than that of FPGA's, we will be taking advantage of our partner's expertise and connections in manufacturing in this area.

Not only is this a better high speed choice as an end product for miners, it is also business wise for us as we can take advantage of economies of scale, and lower cost per unit therefore lower price for the customers (FPGA's are much more expensive). Our actual design will be reaching speeds in the 1000s Kilohashes/second.

We are in early development and much more information will be coming soon. For now visit our website or follow us on twitter for early development updates.

 

Website: www.alpha-t.net

Twitter: www.twitter.com/UKAlpha

Company Name: Alpha Technology (INT) LTD

company Number: 8483921

Established Partner (Will be disclosing soon)

13/07/2013 Update We have ramped up the team and have our premises ready for when assembly starts. Working in collaboration with our design team abroad we have competence in all areas of FPGA design, and excellent contacts for any procurement (large scale pcb manufacturing, mounting, bulk FPGA etc..)

Currently we are in the final stages off fully implementing the Litecoin algorithm in FPGA (not only Scrypt but other algorithms which are stated  PBKDF2, HMAC-SHA256, SHA256 and SALSA20/8, some of which are open source available). Currently in a 12 week process, our tech lead software engineer  has taken over and is developing the communication between board and PC. Everything we are doing is custom made from bottom up, this gives us the advantage of ironing out all details. We are designing the FPGA in the structured manner you would get working on military grade systems, giving you an idea of the sort of proficiency and quality were aiming towards.

In the next 2 weeks we will be porting our design onto an off the shelf board, giving us the ability to test the system and optimise it, working towards our results we received during simulation. Then we can come up with the exact FPGA and block diagram that will result in the end product. Taking our large scale costs into account and a suitable pricing, were aiming towards a minimum of 500-800 kh/s per unit.

Our goal is to constantly provide detailed information on where we are at. Being a student in Electronic Engineering, so far i have learnt a lot myself. So i want to share our updates, and also to increase awareness and interest in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. And give you a glimpse of all the stages in a professional environment when it comes to FPGA design and development.

In my opinion its a great way to learn if your just an average enthusiast or deciding what to study in college or university! Also a guide to educate members of the crypto-currency community, especially when your being told by companies (not naming any names) that it takes 3 months to design and produce an ASIC!

We will also be providing images and videos of the different stages in development. In the next few weeks showing you the first ever Litecoin dedicated FPGA in action.

As we are producing this FPGA for the community, its important we get feedback! Our website will be launching soon. But follow us on twitter for early sneak peak updates www.twitter.com/ukalpha
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 14, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
That post you have highlighted was written by another member of the team (enthusiastic engineer) who had plans to educate members into our development by giving specifics, which is no longer what we will be doing. And my previous post i edited involved specifics into the company structure, which is not really important.

I think we are getting off-topic. Our next post will be when more information is available.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 14, 2013, 08:55:07 PM
That post you have highlighted was written by another member of the team (enthusiastic little brother) who had plans to educate members into our development by giving specifics, which is no longer what we will be doing. And my previous post i edited involved specifics into the company structure, which is not really important.

I think we are getting off-topic. Our next post will be when more information is available.

Thanks. I do recall exactly the content of that post. I'm not surprised you edited it as the admission would not be fitting to your standing as a professional accountant. No doubt the original version is logged on the site's database. The moderators would be well advised to review it.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jk_14 on October 14, 2013, 09:07:24 PM
That post you have highlighted was written by another member of the team (enthusiastic little brother)

sounds better than King of Nigeria...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dunebuggy on October 14, 2013, 09:10:31 PM
I went om companies house, its a private limited company. The structure of a Private ltd company is public information, you can see who is managin director etc. stop trying to troll this post kramble. Even though your trolling helped me see that these guys seem geniune rather than unknown ala jasinlee.

 And i want to see the fpga prototype ASAP! I remember KNCMINER being trolled well worse then this, someone even found knc's mum or sister on facebook! Lol
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jk_14 on October 14, 2013, 09:20:09 PM
I remember KNCMINER being...

so you should also remember what a challenge is ASIC, even when memory is not so important (like in litecoin case...)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dunebuggy on October 14, 2013, 09:24:35 PM
alphas partner seems to have more experience and workforce in the field than OrSoc has, google em. So they mustof figured it out. Lets see how this develops
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: HauntingShade on October 14, 2013, 10:27:18 PM
Moderator notice:

We apologize for the user "dunebuggy" as this was the notorious scammer named "Supa Dupa Jenkins". Please keep an eye out to new users being a pain and report them.

Sorry for the inconvenience!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on October 15, 2013, 04:04:49 AM
Kramble, the members and structure of a Limited Company is indeed public knowledge. All your queries have been answered, you are just trolling now.

More information will be provided further into development. So keep updated on our website or twitter.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Ray_Heat on October 16, 2013, 11:04:53 PM
Hai Alpha!

Is there any time schedule when you'll post prices ?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: CobraXP on October 17, 2013, 04:21:13 PM
If this is true I would be willing to "buy" the right ASIC miner hardware. I want to see youtube videos, newsletters to subscribers, I want to see more than a few pics. I want I would get back on my investment. I am someone with money but I am a "show me" type of buyer  ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: TheKoolio on October 18, 2013, 01:42:09 AM
Hi I will be watching this closely to see how you fair, but I really do have doubts on success. I dont think you have accounted for the extreme costs in asic development. You are quite young (kudos if you are successful on theory) but big investors will need many guarantees. You're going to need a loan or investment with many zeros on it to accomplish final products. Anyway I will be watching this and look forward for any 'technical' bits and bobs you decide to share with us as you go on ahead.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Benny on October 21, 2013, 03:45:07 PM
Hi I will be watching this closely to see how you fair, but I really do have doubts on success. I dont think you have accounted for the extreme costs in asic development. You are quite young (kudos if you are successful on theory) but big investors will need many guarantees. You're going to need a loan or investment with many zeros on it to accomplish final products. Anyway I will be watching this and look forward for any 'technical' bits and bobs you decide to share with us as you go on ahead.

....Coming from another person trying to market their own FPGA/ASIC system, eh?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: rTech on October 21, 2013, 04:10:00 PM
Hi I will be watching this closely to see how you fair, but I really do have doubts on success. I dont think you have accounted for the extreme costs in asic development. You are quite young (kudos if you are successful on theory) but big investors will need many guarantees. You're going to need a loan or investment with many zeros on it to accomplish final products. Anyway I will be watching this and look forward for any 'technical' bits and bobs you decide to share with us as you go on ahead.

....Coming from another person trying to market their own FPGA/ASIC system, eh?


lets keep this clean and ot. Everyone has right to say their opinion even they are competitiors.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: beekeeper on October 21, 2013, 05:37:00 PM
Hi I will be watching this closely to see how you fair, but I really do have doubts on success. I dont think you have accounted for the extreme costs in asic development. You are quite young (kudos if you are successful on theory) but big investors will need many guarantees. You're going to need a loan or investment with many zeros on it to accomplish final products. Anyway I will be watching this and look forward for any 'technical' bits and bobs you decide to share with us as you go on ahead.

I second this. Why do you think we did not jump to make ASIC announcements. I have a FPGA which does scrypt, I can send it to someone for evaluation and most likely they will tell me, yeah, it's doable. Then what, I announce ASIC and lock the market BFL style for an year until I manage to produce something? Careful guys..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: code on October 22, 2013, 10:23:18 AM
Could you upload some real photo of the device? I see some renders only..
Thx!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Chirale on October 22, 2013, 10:38:51 PM
Hello guys,
I started a new thread to discuss current FPGA-miner-developers. Any feedback or comment is welcome!

https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,6506.msg50447/topicseen.html#msg50447

Tnx
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: linusbrauner on October 29, 2013, 04:05:02 PM
This looks pretty weird because of these few points:
1. people are going the hard way: pci-e board, that needs advanced programming, drivers, etc. Development time is long for this single part.
2. pci-e board needs a complex pcb design, because it's high speed bus. This mining application has a requirement similar to rs232 or uart, or i1c, or spi, or whatever. Why to take a race car to deliver pica next door?
3. why 500 kh/s per asic? why not 333? or 666? or perhaps 777?
4. 20 watt per 500 kh/s is the power consumption of kintex 7 running open source ltc miner with external ddr3 memory. For the asic it should be in sub-watt range. Are you scamers using bitcoin asic data? There is huge difference between bitcoin and litecoin: bitcoin asic does processing every clock cycle a calculation in entire asic area. 
Litecoin asic makes a single access to the RAM every cycle. The RAM is 90% of the die, the rest 10% logic is not power hungry. The 500 khs/ asic would consume 2 watt using some old 300 nm technology.
5. LTDs in UK are well known in Germany as offshores and money laundering holes. That does not add extra weight. Might be just another company in Romania.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: beekeeper on October 30, 2013, 11:43:20 AM
They maybe trying to split alg. Part in fpga/asic, part in host CPU.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 30, 2013, 12:41:08 PM
They maybe trying to split alg. Part in fpga/asic, part in host CPU.

That makes sense. The bandwidth needed to pass the PBKDF2 hashes in and out of the salsa engine is much greater than that needed just to send the getwork and return diff=1 hashes as it needs to be done per nonce (1024 bits per nonce, each way), so eg 500kHash/sec is 500Mbit/sec each way. It does seem overkill though as the PBKDF2 only takes up a tiny fraction of the fpga/asic.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: beekeeper on October 30, 2013, 12:47:35 PM
They maybe trying to split alg. Part in fpga/asic, part in host CPU.

That makes sense. The bandwidth needed to pass the PBKDF2 hashes in and out of the salsa engine is much greater than that needed just to send the getwork and return diff=1 hashes as it needs to be done per nonce (1024 bits per nonce, each way), so eg 500kHash/sec is 500Mbit/sec each way. It does seem overkill though as the PBKDF2 only takes up a tiny fraction of the fpga/asic.

I totally agree with you, I went this way in my attempts. But, think how simple salsa/RAM read/write is compared with PBKDF2 ..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on October 30, 2013, 01:05:13 PM
I totally agree with you, I went this way in my attempts. But, think how simple salsa/RAM read/write is compared with PBKDF2 ..

True. I just coded a great glob of a FSM based on the original scrypt.c and fpgaminer's SHA256 core. Horrible way of doing it but it only took up around 4kLE (or maybe it was 8K, but thereabouts anyway) so once it was working I just left it alone as a black box.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: linusbrauner on October 30, 2013, 01:32:49 PM
If you go for an asic, you do it proper way - all inside single package. This split CPU/asic approach is just stupid. NRE, production cost and die cost is the same, but at the end one is asic, and the other one is only attempt-to-build-something. PCI-e bandwidth accessing RAM from peripheral is a joke, makes no sense even to start conversation about it.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on November 01, 2013, 07:17:22 PM
01/11/2013 Update:

1. Completing the design and prototyping of our ASIC chips has been our priority thus far, we will showcase this in an ASIC prototype in the coming weeks. And as development has matured it has helped us to design a more powerful boxed solution rather than our originally planned PCI Cards. More chips can be packed per device and a fully built in solution which will give a lot more ease in connectivity to the miner. You can expect much cheaper cost per kilohash with this solution rather than a card design as well as performance per device being much higher than 5 megahashes or 10 megahashes. Final figures are to be announced soon.

2. New website will be live in the next 24-48 hours where you can sign up to the newsletter to get updates on our development.

3. Our partners have mentioned our partnership in an article by a major Indian newspaper 'The Hindu', viewed by millions daily. We will post up a link when it's out.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on November 05, 2013, 04:29:53 AM
As stated in our last update, our development and partnership has been mentioned in one of India's mainstream newspaper 'The Hindu'. The hard copy went into circulation today and will be viewed by over a million readers, you can view the online version here http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/are-cryptocurrencies-the-way-of-the-future/article5314739.ece
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Scrypt ASIC Miner Development
Post by: auto2nr1 on November 08, 2013, 05:08:51 PM
Sent a e-mail. No response. Please reply back. Thanks.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kinetic915 on November 11, 2013, 06:56:56 AM
There a website up yet?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: xiaomibama on November 13, 2013, 06:00:35 AM
Can we see some pics/videos?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on November 14, 2013, 04:23:54 AM
Today we are officially announcing our main partners who we have been working with in silence for the past months on this project. Here is some information on who they are and what they are doing with us:

Dexcel Electronic Designs is our main partner in the design and manufacturing of our Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miners. Headquartered in Bangalore,  India, Dexcel Electronic Designs is a 13 year old high end embedded product engineering company with fabless OEM/ODM Box build capability. Their engineering team consists of highly qualified and skilled resources in hardware, software and mechanical engineering capabilities . A state of the art design centre is located at the headquarters to undertake hardware, software and programmable logic design work. Dexcel is led by a team of highly experienced professionals in its area of specialization, with an average experience exceeding 15 years. Experience range from Supercomputing platform designs , image processing , defence and aerospace designs . The design team have worked on several state of the art designs  in the areas of software, systems architecture, involving ASICs, FPGAs , and DSPs. Dexcel Designs have worked on numerous projects nationally and internationally.

Alpha Technology has partnered with Dexcel Designs to work on designing the suitable hardware for Litecoin mining starting with FPGA conceptualisation of Scrypt algorithm until designing of dedicated ASIC hardware. We will take advantage of Dexcel Designs’ expertise, manufacturing capabilities and workforce in order to have a quality and efficient system in order to shorten the time frame from design to final shipment of our miners to the customer. Dexcel Designs are design partners with Intel, Texas Instruments, Altera , Xilinx , Analog Devices etc. These partnership’s provide Dexcel Designs and Alpha Technology even further resources which are normally not openly available.

Dexcel Designs Website: http://dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html

Dexcel Designs CEO Amit Sinha announces our partnership in ‘The Hindu’: http://thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/are-cryptocurrencies-the-way-of-the-future/article5314739.ece

Alpha Technology Announcement: http://alpha-t.net/news/partnership-announced
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Grinny on November 14, 2013, 01:11:54 PM
Good news! :)
I'm really curious about the upcoming announcement of your tech specs.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jonnymander on November 14, 2013, 02:09:11 PM
Very interested myself too.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: superresistant on November 14, 2013, 04:09:44 PM
Great news !
Can't wait to have one.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ThomasFX on November 14, 2013, 06:01:06 PM
Looks legit.
One question I ask myself: why won't you guys accept Litecoin, while accepting Bitcoin?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Grinny on November 14, 2013, 07:13:52 PM
One question I ask myself: why won't you guys accept Litecoin, while accepting Bitcoin?

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mmitech on November 14, 2013, 09:46:13 PM
very interesting, I am watching this thread for news.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: liteking on November 14, 2013, 10:16:08 PM
Can I pay in cheese curds?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on November 15, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
looking at this thread i think this is another scam, the website looks like it was made by a 5-year old ,lots of talk about new partnership , 7 month progress in develepment - no pics, vids some specs??? I wrote to them - no reply , maybe busy working on the asic miner. Imho this is something new a romanian-hindu collabiration scam.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Grinny on November 15, 2013, 06:58:11 PM
looking at this thread i think this is another scam, the website looks like it was made by a 5-year old ,lots of talk about new partnership , 7 month progress in develepment - no pics, vids some specs??? I wrote to them - no reply , maybe busy working on the asic miner. Imho this is something new a romanian-hindu collabiration scam.

someone on reddit mentioned that their logo appears on several different pages: http://ccrtd.org/donate/ http://www.ecfbatiment.com/ http://deekels.com/ http://gregorylefort.com/ http://www.magnettutors.com/ - any explanation for this?

honestly, i became speptical if this is legit or not. but let's wait for some pics and hopefuly a video.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: liteking on November 15, 2013, 07:21:42 PM
looking at this thread i think this is another scam, the website looks like it was made by a 5-year old ,lots of talk about new partnership , 7 month progress in develepment - no pics, vids some specs??? I wrote to them - no reply , maybe busy working on the asic miner. Imho this is something new a romanian-hindu collabiration scam.

someone on reddit mentioned that their logo appears on several different pages: http://ccrtd.org/donate/ http://www.ecfbatiment.com/ http://deekels.com/ http://gregorylefort.com/ http://www.magnettutors.com/ - any explanation for this?

honestly, i became speptical if this is legit or not. but let's wait for some pics and hopefuly a video.

I found that interesting.. I will wait for a reply from AT before I make my judgement
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on November 15, 2013, 08:57:13 PM
Been reading some of these comments. A couple of notes, we chose from a list of logos that some of us thought looked good with the name (it was quite a generic technology logo), i'm sure you can find out of the millions of websites out there similar looking logos with any logo if you look hard enough. But we congratulate the person who did the effort and hard work. Similarly we put up a temporary image up on our 'product page' which is for illustration purposes only. And to base your judgment of our legitimacy on that is a little short-sighted.

This is the 'Project Development' section which means we are still in development, we have never stated we have finished development, we are at the stage where we have proven technically everything is possible in terms of our goals in node, hash rate, power consumption, cost, quantity of chips etc. We don't want to disclose critical information too early for obvious reasons, until absolutely EVERYTHING is finalised till we have our launch day (previous quoted figures in terms of hash-rate per chip were quite accurate). Rest assured once we do start our launch day everything will be fully prepared. We will not just put up 3D renders and take pre-order money, and then start development afterwards. The hard work is being done now so everything runs smoothly afterwards, our partners have the facilities and workforce in India to shorten total product time as much as possible. The only reason for going ASIC as a final device was because even with the wattage advantages of a very optimised FPGA, the cost per unit is so high you might aswell mine with GPU's (this is our opinion). ASIC shows far more hash rate at a much lower per unit cost and wattage compared to GPU's.

At the end of the day we cannot make everybody happy, but this is how were going about things. Small updates will be given but most likely we will stay in the dark till about a month and a half to focus on our full product and then give bigger updates and our launch. If you want to focus on aesthetics or trolling that is great. But good luck to everybody and stay tuned.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on November 15, 2013, 11:45:54 PM

Rest assured once we do start our launch day everything will be fully prepared. We will not just put up 3D renders and take pre-order money, and then start development afterwards.

Pretty big statment. But im still not convince. I just dont belive in an asic scryt before fpga. If this is true this company would do total domination in the scryt mining world. Am i wright? BTW my number one dog is still CryptoIndustries and i hope they get it done. For me 
https://payonix.com = Alpha Technology same shit pure marketing
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on November 16, 2013, 03:05:58 AM
here in india, thehindu is very big, the technology section is the best in country. And i was brought here from the article in question. It is great the big Indian companies is getting into the crypto-verse. i have a few questions which i will PM message you. And the above commentator sounds like an informant of crypto-industry, PAYONIX was a SCAM, they did not have any company affiliation, cryptoindustry also has no affiliation, alpha + dexcel is the hope. FPGA is used as a prototype to ASIC silly,  they will  have do FPGA first, but cost is too high to sell. So its probably all behind closed doors for prototyping. I think legitimacy is not in the question here, it is proven from the articles and links, please google dexceel. The question here is will it be affordable for everyone? 4000 dollars here is a years salary.... Anyway i just wanted to say good luck, it is good for us Indians.

Some google fishing for every1:

http://www.linkedin.com/company/dexcel-electronics-designs-pvt.-ltd
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Grinny on November 17, 2013, 02:59:19 PM
here in india, thehindu is very big, the technology section is the best in country. And i was brought here from the article in question.
Could you explain how you were brought from the article to this site here, without beeing able to follow a link - cause there is none?

The article quotes: "(The author is Managing Director, Dexcel Electronics Designs)"
and: "This article is closed for comments."

So, despite the fact, that you don't have any legal info on your website, no names, no pics of you or your office, not even a proper logo, the only source you state for not beeing a scam is a prewritten article done by... yourself? Did I mention that your site was registered by a Privacy Protection Service..?

I don't call you a scam, I would never do. Really.
But if I were in your position, the first thing I would do when setting up a company and appearing before the public (which is here), is preventing to look like a scam. Because simply appearing to be a scam frightens most of your potential customers. And there's nothing wrong with giving out your real business address, legal info and a picture of you with some guy from Dexcel (who are renown and legit as it seems) - And I don't speak of giving out any secret tech specs of your upcoming product! I don't need those to believe you, because your product will be self-explanatory when it's beeing released.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jk_14 on November 18, 2013, 12:31:53 PM
We don't want to disclose critical information too early for obvious reasons, until absolutely EVERYTHING is finalised till we have our launch day (previous quoted figures in terms of hash-rate per chip were quite accurate). Rest assured once we do start our launch day everything will be fully prepared. We will not just put up 3D renders and take pre-order money, and then start development afterwards.
(...)
Small updates will be given but most likely we will stay in the dark till about a month and a half to focus on our full product and then give bigger updates and our launch.

Very good strategy. So, in other words - do you plan to make your first Batch silently and DO NOT use preorders? I insist to do it that way, because if your product is legit, and parameters are as mentioned before - will be sold in days or hours...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on November 19, 2013, 12:06:49 PM
Grinny point for you buddy.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bossman on November 19, 2013, 12:10:13 PM
is this still vaporware or is there a working prototype and video for proof?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on November 19, 2013, 03:13:35 PM
Updated Partnership News:

Here is the updated link on our partner's website regarding our partnership: http://dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html

Note. all queries regarding the product are dealt by Alpha Technology.

A lot of questions have been asked about when will we start pre-ordering, when will we show a prototype of our ASIC chip and when we will give details of our ASIC product. All this will be done hopefully in December, development is going along well and some things we cannot divulge too early before we have finalised everything.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: thitha2907 on November 21, 2013, 01:47:39 AM
this is the end of vga age
have already subscribed newsletter
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mmitech on November 21, 2013, 06:07:17 AM
we are all waiting for something to see, I would suggest you start showing real progress to get the attention of people, most of us are tired of words and scams, if you prove your design by showing something you will get thousands of interest .
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SVK on November 21, 2013, 09:32:09 AM
we are all waiting for something to see, I would suggest you start showing real progress to get the attention of people, most of us are tired of words and scams, if you prove your design by showing something you will get thousands of interest .

You are not happy with BREAKING NEWS about their partnership ? lol.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mazzaneo on November 21, 2013, 11:05:18 AM
Guys,

Im just about to make a mining rig.
Do we know if these guys will be making PCI-E cards for existing rigs or stand alone machines?
 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on November 21, 2013, 11:18:38 AM
Guys,

Im just about to make a mining rig.
Do we know if these guys will be making PCI-E cards for existing rigs or stand alone machines?
No previous asic has ever been a pciE card, always controlled by host via usb.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mazzaneo on November 21, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
I guess my question is... assuming this isn't a scam, will it connect to existing mining rigs... does anyone know?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on November 21, 2013, 02:15:27 PM
I guess my question is... assuming this isn't a scam, will it connect to existing mining rigs... does anyone know?

Originaly they wanted to make PCI-E cards, but they decided to make a box version instead:
http://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-01112013/ (http://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-01112013/)

No, you won't be able to add them to your existing rigs instead of GPU cards.

Personaly I like the idea of an out of the box miner better anyway... Imagine driver problems for custom hardware, mining software problems in diferent systems? I'll take the box ;) Widely used hardware can give you problems, but you can at least google it. Here you would have to wait for their support, post on a forum and wait...

I have several GPU minig rigs with 4x 7950 and it took me quite a while to find the right Linux distro, AMD drivers, cgminer version that worked best for me.

So a box with with an ethernet plug where you just set the pool/worker details and run gets my vote anyday :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mazzaneo on November 21, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Fair point Totscha,

I wonder how much this thing will cost. Surely it won't be the crazy money of bit coin ASIC miners 5k plus!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: gabby1 on November 21, 2013, 06:15:17 PM
Fair point Totscha,

I wonder how much this thing will cost. Surely it won't be the crazy money of bit coin ASIC miners 5k plus!
It never was crazy money, remember? you always had your ~300-800 USD FPGA miners and then came the cheap Block Erupters, so the Bitcoin mining is not about crazy money, but crazy money always helps!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on November 21, 2013, 06:49:30 PM
i think fpga and asics destroyed bitcoin, just look at the difficulty rate  going up. Why do we need it in the litecoin world? With the price of litecoin today im happy. Really with ltc ~10$ everybody in the world can enjoy minnig and isnt it what we all want? You will all see in a year from know 90% of people on the forum will be gone, no more tech questions no more newbies and minning will be by companies like this somewhere in India with hashpower. So boys and girls in the  1Q of 2014 litecoin minning dies. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on November 22, 2013, 07:33:11 AM
i think fpga and asics destroyed bitcoin, just look at the difficulty rate  going up. Why do we need it in the litecoin world? With the price of litecoin today im happy. Really with ltc ~10$ everybody in the world can enjoy minnig and isnt it what we all want? You will all see in a year from know 90% of people on the forum will be gone, no more tech questions no more newbies and minning will be by companies like this somewhere in India with hashpower. So boys and girls in the  1Q of 2014 litecoin minning dies. Any suggestions?

If it's possible and money is involved, it will happen - no point in argueing or logic, thats just how it is.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mmitech on November 22, 2013, 08:01:06 AM
i think fpga and asics destroyed bitcoin, just look at the difficulty rate  going up. Why do we need it in the litecoin world? With the price of litecoin today im happy. Really with ltc ~10$ everybody in the world can enjoy minnig and isnt it what we all want? You will all see in a year from know 90% of people on the forum will be gone, no more tech questions no more newbies and minning will be by companies like this somewhere in India with hashpower. So boys and girls in the  1Q of 2014 litecoin minning dies. Any suggestions?

If it's possible and money is involved, it will happen - no point in argueing or logic, thats just how it is.

FPGAs and ASICs are great innovation for both Litecoin and Bitcoin, it helps to secure the network efficiently, the distribution of the ASICs in bitcoin rewind it for miners where only a premium miners had access to the early release of these device, but now anyone can get an ASIC, so even if this happens with Litecoin it wont last for long, the key here is when you see a potential of investment you have to invest right away don't wait, sure it is a risk but there is a reward as well.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on November 22, 2013, 12:36:41 PM
i think fpga and asics destroyed bitcoin, just look at the difficulty rate  going up. Why do we need it in the litecoin world? With the price of litecoin today im happy. Really with ltc ~10$ everybody in the world can enjoy minnig and isnt it what we all want? You will all see in a year from know 90% of people on the forum will be gone, no more tech questions no more newbies and minning will be by companies like this somewhere in India with hashpower. So boys and girls in the  1Q of 2014 litecoin minning dies. Any suggestions?

No, Litecoin mining will not die. Scrypt ASIC will basicaly be very similar to a GPU in terms of the design itself and performance. Because of optimizations it will consume much less power. So it will not affect the hashrate like SHA256 (Bitcoin) ASICs did. But it will drasticaly improve profitability because of lower power cost.

Yes, the difficulty will go up, but lets say by a factor of 2x, maybe 3x. Still profitable with a GPU if LTC price is $10+.

Bitcoin diff is now 100x compared to april. Because it's relatively easy to make a SHA256 ASIC that is 100x-1000x better than a GPU. To acheive that kind of difficulty increase with Litecoin, you would need to add several million scrypt ASIC chips or AMD 7950s (we assume they will have about the same performance) to the network. This hardware would cost a few billion $. And since even Bitcoin ASIC sales are not that high I don't see it happening in Litecoin ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on November 22, 2013, 05:53:50 PM
thanks for the answer . Bitcoin caught my attetion too late in life  and now i invested in litcoin rigs thanks to all the people on this forum , i asked questions , always got honest answers. bought 20rigs (3x7950) so when i hear about an asic coming out im just a bit afraid, its not about the money its about taking "the fun" out. If you say asic and fpga is good for buisness and keeping the coin alive then im nothing but happy.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Shimple on November 22, 2013, 09:45:27 PM
Hello Alpha Technology. I have a quick question for you.

I recently invested in a BTC rig and got screwed over for 3 grand... I am very interested in your LTC rigs that will be released soon enough but I want to protect my bum this time...

I have not really looked into LTC companies much so I have no clue if your trusted or not, if you already shipped stuff out or not etc.

Would you be able to explain to me why I should trust you with my money and prove that I will not get scammed by another company?

Also, will you be accepting PayPal?

Sorry if this annoys you, just trying not to lose another 3 grand here...  ::)

Sincerely,

Filip
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bonksnp on December 05, 2013, 04:25:00 AM
Any updates on this? I read there would be videos and information released in December and....here we are. :)

Also, what payment methods will you be accepting once the product goes on sale or is available to pre order?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SVK on December 05, 2013, 06:10:22 AM
I read there would be videos and information released in December

LOL
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on December 05, 2013, 07:35:25 AM
Any updates on this? I read there would be videos and information released in December and....here we are. :)

Also, what payment methods will you be accepting once the product goes on sale or is available to pre order?

Well you thought December 1st, they thought December 31st. But I wouldn't hold my breath, these kind of projects are always over deadline.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bonksnp on December 05, 2013, 05:31:02 PM
Oh I'm not, just haven't seen anything for a couple weeks so I thought I'd follow up.  :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: PatG9234 on December 06, 2013, 02:28:45 AM
I'd like to see some estimated hashrates, or even better proof of hashrates when a working prototype exists. Also, price points? For a 5000 kh/s device I'd be willing to pay no more than a month of profit. That being about $2500 USD. If it were a 10,000 kh/s device, I'd be willing for fork over a little bit more.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: biggydeen on December 06, 2013, 11:20:13 AM
I'd like some response on my following research:

After looking up your business address in the UK it seems like your business is on a different address then listed on your website according to the UK Business register (You also changed names once). Also looking into the neighbourhood it seems old and deserted (although that might not mean anything) I also contacted Dexcel designs and i don't know what to think of that. I asked a few questions about Alpha T and they confirmed your business relation and that you shared the costs in development.

BUT it seems a little bit odd that i got a reaction from the CEO himself of dexcel designs, now thats kinda weird cause CEO's do not respond to customer emails IMO. Also i got direct response to my questions, again from the CEO (reply's without a signature). Maybe thats different in India or Dexcel design is a very small company. not sure what to think...

Can someone explain this?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 07, 2013, 11:29:07 PM
I live in Delhi, so i have not seen Dexcel facility in bangalore. But  I went on alpha updated About Us. And it says registered address on same address as accountancy firm, which you can confirm if you google M Akram & Co. and on their website, and companies houses. My guess being they are situated in same building or nearby.

 And googling dexcel find a few legitimate findings with partnerships with Altera: http://www.altera.co.uk/products/design_services/partners/profile/Dexcel%20Electronics%20Designs. With texas instruments: http://www.ti.com/ww/in/third_party.html And

And dexcel also seem to hire quite a lot, on google for past few years for engineers etc.

i also just seen Dexcel developed some IP for Altera: http://www.altera.co.uk/support/refdesigns/sys-sol/wireline/ref-dexcel.html

I am just awaiting statistics, specification and price. Alpha tech about us page says they are  dealing with sales and support, whereas dexcel is doing manufacturing and distribution. Which means i will get miner directly from India?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 09, 2013, 09:08:02 PM
Looks like a legit company to me,what makes people think there miner with be 3k?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: LoTodelo on December 09, 2013, 10:30:11 PM
Hmm, I was hoping to be able to order before Christmas, eager to hear some news.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hankercheif on December 12, 2013, 01:31:59 PM
i noticed that their website has become verified.
(http://ft.trillian.im/efa6257197fce847ff12c38f511516cb45fa16b0/6lOlNjuKBp7I6WDt90OVNh8RX0pUc.jpg)
what do you guys make of it? would it be easy for fake scamming "company" to get their website verified?

another thing.
lets say that it is a scam and i'll pay for my pre-order via paypal and never get what i paid for.
paypal has a protection policies and: "Just in case your item doesn't arrive or if it’s significantly different from its description, we can help get all your money back."
https://www.paypal.com/nz/webapps/mpp/security/buy-protection (https://www.paypal.com/nz/webapps/mpp/security/buy-protection)
so is it or is it not a safe bet?

to me this all looks pretty legit so far.
in their latest tweet they stated they will release all info, specs, prices within a week so will see.

thoughts? 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on December 12, 2013, 01:35:31 PM
Its just a ssl certificate bought for the domain, costs 10-20$ and thats it, no verfication at all.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bonksnp on December 12, 2013, 04:46:50 PM
Not only that, but I don't think I'm going to potentially risk a few thousand dollars and hope that PayPal will back me up if something goes wrong.  And I can't even imagine how difficult it would be to recoup money that has been sent overseas.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MDX on December 13, 2013, 12:37:28 AM
Yep, I'm not going to perpetuate this whole pre-order/ripoff cycle.  I'll buy when they're shipping via escrow.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 14, 2013, 04:24:43 PM
i don't think people know the difference between a normal ssl and premium extended validation ssl. that is an Premium EV SSL because in the green it shows company name. It verifies company information indepths and also when you click it and click "connection", it says alpha tech (int) verified at greater manchester etc, here is a link showing EV SSL and how much verification is required in comparison to a NORMAL 10 dollar SSL which requires no verification.

http://uk.godaddy.com/ssl/ssl-extended-validation.aspx. just clarifiying. You cannot get premium ev ssl in India, just a few countries mentioned in the link.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: as3ard on December 14, 2013, 07:15:20 PM
Sorry, if this has been brought up before: https://alpha-t.net/login-register/ I can't seem to find the registration are, there's only login.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on December 16, 2013, 07:27:03 AM
i don't think people know the difference between a normal ssl and premium extended validation ssl. that is an Premium EV SSL because in the green it shows company name. It verifies company information indepths and also when you click it and click "connection", it says alpha tech (int) verified at greater manchester etc, here is a link showing EV SSL and how much verification is required in comparison to a NORMAL 10 dollar SSL which requires no verification.

http://uk.godaddy.com/ssl/ssl-extended-validation.aspx. just clarifiying. You cannot get premium ev ssl in India, just a few countries mentioned in the link.

You are correct, i know the difference but i misinterpreted that one.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Enron on December 16, 2013, 03:06:56 PM
Hopefully we see some specs this week? :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 17, 2013, 08:57:58 PM
Development Update 17/12/2013

Original update link: https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-17122013/

In the coming days we will be releasing all detailed information on our ASIC prototype chip, end product specification, aswell as pricing and how we will go about the pre-ordering phase. Today is the release of our ASIC chip prototype technical document. Next updates will be a video demonstration of the core speeds we have put in our document and then our final product specifications. Our devices are named ‘Viper’ and there will be a 5Mh/s version and 25Mh/s version.

ASIC PROTOTYPE

Prototyping an ASIC chip is done in an high-end FPGA/ASIC prototyping board. Where the core speed was optimised by our expert team. All our goals to get the most throughput in performance had been reached.

The following report shows analysis of the ASIC prototyping phase we went through, and we are comfortable with sharing this. The core speed is demonstrated in a Virtex board, which has just 8 cores. We will shortly be releasing a video demonstrating the core speeds on CGMINER. Click the following link to download or view the full report https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf. Our optimized design has out performed the fastest publicy known scrypt implementation by 3x. Aswell as giving it the benefit of it being fully multi-core and scaleable for our ASIC chip.

Our ASIC design is almost frozen by our ASIC manufacturers. We are targeting a more safer and cost efficient approach of hitting 128 cores (as shown in the document), where each chip hashing rate will be 300-500 Kh/s. We will give you the exact hashing rate and frozen design by next week. Note. we have shown all hash rates as minimum expected figures.

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

Each Viper device is based upon the same custom Viper board. Each Viper board contains multiple ASIC chips reaching a hashing rate of 5Mh/s. These boards can easily be connected via slot in b2b connectors, without any wiring. One board in each device will contain a micro-controller to make the devices fully standalone.'Viper' is the name of our first line of scrypt dedicated miners. There is a smaller 5Mh/s version and larger 25Mh/s version.  Each device is designed to be rack mountable, 5MH/s (1u) and 25Mh/s (6u)

Summary

ASIC Chip: 28/45nm @ 300-500Kh/s

Viper Board: Multiple ASIC Chips = 5,000Kh/s

Viper Miner (5 Mh/s): 1 x Viper Board, ~150 watts, 1u size rack mountable. Fully standalone.

Viper Miner (25 Mh/s): 5 x Viper Board, ~750 watts, 6u size rack mountable, fully standalone.


Note. The finalising of our ASIC design will not affect the end product hash-rate. 5Mh/s and 25Mh/s devices are final.

 

What will be in the next Update?

Until we launch our pre-ordering process, we have a few more updates to release:

1. Images and full specifications of our Viper devices.

2. Video demonstration of ASIC prototype showing core speed (as shown in document). And announced frozen hash-rate and process for ASIC chip fabrication.

3. Images of our new office, and official Viper trailer.

4.  Pricing and pre-order process explained, and terms and conditions.

We expect all 4 updates to be released within the next 2 weeks. Where we will then begin the pre-ordering process.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: timvan007 on December 17, 2013, 09:26:32 PM
Great news! I am anxiously awaiting the continued updates. Is there any possibility of a rough price point to prepare for? I would like to make sure finances are in line before the pre-order gets completely bought up.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: trankil on December 17, 2013, 09:27:19 PM
Great news! I am anxiously awaiting the continued updates. Is there any possibility of a rough price point to prepare for? I would like to make sure finances are in line before the pre-order gets completely bought up.

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 17, 2013, 09:37:18 PM
You should only consider taking orders from people in UK to start with i think,then for the second batch multiregional,just so you get shipping worked out for other countrys.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Exposured on December 17, 2013, 09:51:27 PM
I'm really curious about the price. Might put in a pre-order.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 17, 2013, 10:13:32 PM
After pre-ordering when will you start shipping?Q
Taking advantage of our partners workforce and facilities we expect to start shipping 4-5 months after pre-orders are taken.

Do you think the 25MH will still be profitable in that time frame?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Grinny on December 17, 2013, 10:29:44 PM
great news!

one request: when you're going to calculate the pricing, PLEASE allow payments in litecoin in order to support the community BUT make the price fixing of your products in USD before (so that the ltc/btc prices of your miner will vary depending on their related usd value - and not the other way round).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 17, 2013, 10:32:10 PM
YESS! 5mhash version is mine. Plus will you sell your boards seperately?

Also in response to above comment. People are worried about difficulty like bitcoin, bitcoin has various ASIC's coming out all the time which makes it unpredictable. If these guys ship and noone does for next year. It doesnt matter if difficulty goes up because all of the difficulty is made up of stacks of inefficient hungry GPU's. So more profitable intermz off power efficieny which is main advantage. That is giving cost is slightly lower to GPU's per kilohsh according to ther previous statement.s (not including the computer etc that needs to run the GPU', I HOPE)

Regards
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: nightengale on December 18, 2013, 03:59:42 AM
I had an order with KnC on their first run of ASICs and was generally very satisfied with that process. I hope that Alpha can emulate some of the better aspects of KnC's process, such as a strong sense of transparency, early-customer loyalty, full refunds offered up until shipping, excellent responsiveness to customer inquiries, "open-day" type events that allow prospective buyers to see the foundation for the technology and get a sense of the people involved... There are just too many bad examples out there (BFL, BitSyncom, HashFast) -- I really hope Alpha can avoid becoming another one of those.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on December 18, 2013, 08:08:25 AM
You should only consider taking orders from people in UK to start with i think,then for the second batch multiregional,just so you get shipping worked out for other countrys.

They will be manufacturing in India. So why not India first? Or maybe Australia first? Germany? Should we vote on it?

Or maybe just let anybody order, because you can always work out shipping beforehand? :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Raw-H on December 18, 2013, 09:49:59 AM
Definitely looking forward to this project, one of the few I place my trust in ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on December 18, 2013, 11:02:45 AM
What's up with the site (403 - Forbidden)? Upgrade in progress?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Raw-H on December 18, 2013, 11:08:48 AM
What's up with the site (403 - Forbidden)? Upgrade in progress?

They posted this message on their twitter:

Quote
Apologies everyone. Traffic spike has been higher than anticipated on our site, upgrading our servers as we speak. Thanks for the patience.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on December 18, 2013, 11:47:32 AM
Makes sense... Thanks ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boomix on December 18, 2013, 04:38:07 PM
PDF of the process has been posted on their twitter as well.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AFox on December 18, 2013, 09:32:13 PM
3. Images of our new office, and official Viper trailer.
Will you do an open doors day to meet your team, visit your new offices and see a working prototype of your miner ?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: toko on December 20, 2013, 08:21:22 AM
3. Images of our new office, and official Viper trailer.
Will you do an open doors day to meet your team, visit your new offices and see a working prototype of your miner ?

This and

Can you confirm that you will accept visa also? faq says paypal, bank transfer and btc. Bottom of the page says visa also.

kind regards, toko
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on December 20, 2013, 08:38:57 AM
3. Images of our new office, and official Viper trailer.
Will you do an open doors day to meet your team, visit your new offices and see a working prototype of your miner ?

This and

Can you confirm that you will accept visa also? faq says paypal, bank transfer and btc. Bottom of the page says visa also.

kind regards, toko

They can accept any major card thru PayPal. You don't need a PayPal account for that. PayPal acts as a credit card payment processor.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: matrixfighter on December 22, 2013, 09:14:09 PM
Is it going to be for mining Litecoin only ???  Or will it work for mining any other Scrypt based coin? For example,I'mvery interested in mining CasinCoin -- will Viper work for CasinoCoin mining?

Many thanks.   
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: morphers on December 23, 2013, 01:12:30 AM
Anyone hazard a guess of the cost for the 25MHs or 5MHs Viper Miners?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: straya on December 23, 2013, 01:29:31 PM
I reckon it will 1000 per 1000K/H because that would be close to what it would cost to setup a miner. Your roi will be a lot sooner though as you wont be paying for power
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Chirale on December 23, 2013, 02:06:55 PM
I personally think it should be way less than 1$/ kHash... 25k for a 25mH/s would be a bit too expensive!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: timvan007 on December 23, 2013, 02:12:01 PM
Considering I am using a kilowatt of power for 1.8Mh right now, I'd expect the price to be around that for 5Mh/150w. Or, at least, I'm hoping it's not over $1/Kh.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: straya on December 23, 2013, 02:37:04 PM
I hope not either but i would imagine it would be a sizeable amount if it was a thousand for 5 that would mean 5000 for 25m/h. 20k to setup a 100000kh gpu farm. With a ROI within the first month. I dunno. It sounds to good to be at that price
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: timvan007 on December 23, 2013, 03:04:08 PM
All still speculation, so not worth worrying about yet. I'll be happy with a ROI. Period. Preferably within 3-6 months, but I'll still take what I can get.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 24, 2013, 12:10:56 AM
Follow this link to view this update on our website: https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-23122013/

Announcements 24/12/2013

Today is the release of our full pricing, shipping, terms and all the helpful information you would need to secure a pre-order, this can all be found in the 'Terms of Order' page here: https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/. We will be taking a 30% deposit payment, and remainder 70% to be paid 8-10 weeks before shipment. Minimum chip specifications have been confirmed from our ASIC manufacturer using Global Foundries as our foundry. In regards to our devices, we have confirmed a lower power consumption than quoted previously and also a guarantee of minimum hash rate. this can all be found in the individual Product pages here: https://alpha-t.net/shop/. Please read the Terms of Order page, and individual Products pages carefully.

To summarise some other things:

Viper-5mh/s which can hash at minimum 5 MH/s: £1350. Deposit- £405.

Viper-25mh/s which can hash at minimum 25 MH/s: £5450. Deposit- £1635.

All prices are the same worldwide. And exclude shipping which will be added according to location on final payment.

ASIC Chip Specs

Process: 28nm/40nm HPP, 3.3v/1.8v

Internal Memory: >=128Mb SRAM

Gates: ~28M Gates

Clock Speed: > 600 Mhz Core Clock

Hashing Cores: >= 128

Chip Hash rate: > 350 Kh/s

Power Consumption: < 5w

Registration and Wishlist

Registration will be open on the 25th or 26th of December. We urge all customers to be prepared by providing shipping and billing information in the My Account section. Also showing interest by adding their desired products to the Wishlist, with stated quantity.

You can register here on the specified day: https://alpha-t.net/login-register/

New Office

We have moved to a bigger office in Manchester. Some more interior work is still to be done, but here is an image from the outside. Details of our office can be found here https://alpha-t.net/about-us/


Launch and Next Updates

We expect to officially launch in a weeks time.  We will be first rolling out some images of our devices and various other product updates.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hankercheif on December 24, 2013, 12:34:16 AM
what a pile of crap. where is the actual proof? where is a working prototype showcase or something?
and those terms of order... very very shady. go fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boomix on December 24, 2013, 12:37:58 AM
I don't see a way to register only log in anyone else?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 24, 2013, 01:23:17 AM
I was waiting for this! hankerchief, you are competitor fake acnt? them terms of conditions r better then anyone elses, 30% deposit upfront and refundable, bfl, any other asic company im sure doesnt have that sort of terms. THIS IS GOOD NEWS. Also pricing is bit more then i expected.. but is still better than what most people thought (far less than 0.9 jasinlee's)..

alphatechs i cant register ?? open christmas??? what is wishlist, is that free lottery product?

and btw, they are not opening orders yet, they say more product updates for a week... i think prototype video must be cming soon....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Enron on December 24, 2013, 01:34:06 AM
Does this mean they will begin accepting deposits on the 25 or 26 of December or just registrations? BTW, does this also mean that delivery is going to be in March or April?

Seriously though, 9000 dollars for a product that is delivered in April?!?! Alpha-T will be one to two months late to the market at that rate.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: fcmatt on December 24, 2013, 01:38:23 AM
Are you really going to open this up for orders/deposits/etc.. On a long holiday weekend? Really?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 24, 2013, 01:45:37 AM
i think opening  in a weeks time? sales time? and tbh who is really going to deliver before them.. no other legitmatised company. i may be biased as i am Indian ;)..i will be vsiting dexcel office, who will go alpha office ???
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: nameBrandon on December 24, 2013, 02:04:05 AM
Where is the prototype video.. you know, the proof?

Code: [Select]
30% advance payment to be paid along with booking and registration. Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date. The exact shipment date shall be notified on our website.

Cancellation & Refund Policy

Within 0-1 month after receipt of payment: Full deposit will be refunded.

Within 1-3 months after receipt of payment: 75% of the deposit will be refunded.

Within 3-5 months after receipt of payment: 50% of the deposit will be refunded.

Please note a cancellation fee of £70 towards handling charges will be applicable along with any cancellation.

Shipping, Hashrate, Price Estimates & Announcements

Shipping  Booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014. Live updates shall be provided on exact shipping date. Shipping is worldwide.


So not shipping until Q3 (who says Q2/Q3..? pick one! That just tells us you don't know, and you're buying yourself time)

30% up-front, at least 8 months before you're going to ship.. when realistically you won't know if you have any delays until probably 3 months ahead of shipping time.. at which point you've now taken 50% of everyone's deposits.



Quote
As we go through the engineering process we will keep our customers regularly updated on our progress via Live Updates..

Engineering process? I hope you mean production process.

Quote
We have all our target figures officially set, and may be using Global foundries 28nm/40nm process node.

So are you, or are you not using GF?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on December 24, 2013, 02:05:26 AM
Interesting. Price is $0.44 per kh/s, almost exactly half of the $0.90 per kh/s announced price of the Fibonacci ASIC miner.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 24, 2013, 03:03:32 AM
is there a video showing the unit hashing?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on December 24, 2013, 04:34:18 AM
Viper-5mh/s which can hash at minimum 5 MH/s: £1350 (inc VAT) Deposit- £405 (inc VAT)

Viper-25mh/s which can hash at minimum 25 MH/s: £5450 (inc VAT) Deposit- £1635 (inc VAT)

If I order with shipment to the US, can I opt to not pay the VAT?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 24, 2013, 04:39:05 AM
We were all told there would be a working prototype to see? There are also some implications that the design stage may not be fully finalized?

Basically we would all like to see something in action, before funding a company large amounts to produce something simply based on calculation/theory..

Other than that, all looks great. One note, when you say registration opens up and we should fill in our info, when is the actual point in which orders will be taken?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 24, 2013, 06:42:14 AM
We were all told there would be a working prototype to see? There are also some implications that the design stage may not be fully finalized?

Basically we would all like to see something in action, before funding a company large amounts to produce something simply based on calculation/theory..

Other than that, all looks great. One note, when you say registration opens up and we should fill in our info, when is the actual point in which orders will be taken?

I am pritty sure they wont be shipping to usa on first batch
USA has Sluicebit if you havent noticed
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 24, 2013, 07:36:03 AM
more details, please. The terms suck other than cc option. But even then it would be passed a chargeback time if you didn't deliver.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 24, 2013, 07:38:40 AM
I am pritty sure they wont be shipping to usa on first batch
USA has Sluicebit if you havent noticed

Negative. They have spoke of no such thing and explicitly state international shipping. It would make no difference to them.

Sluicebit, hmmmm interesting, yet not that profitable for the pricing and wait.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mazzaneo on December 24, 2013, 07:42:33 AM
I'm really sceptical about the whole thing.
They don't expect to ship till q2 to q3, that is a huge wait to be giving a deposit for a product from a startup company with no background. I feel you'd be better off buying litecoin with the money you'd invest into this mythical hardware.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: linusbrauner on December 24, 2013, 08:51:11 AM
Just two things, I don't really like as engineer:
1. "Process: 28nm/40nm HPP, 3.3v/1.8v" <- both 25 nm and 40 nm processes are low voltage processes. Here for the real chip value should be between 0.9 and 1.3 volts. That means, that you have integrated voltage converter on the same die. Or how is that managed?
2. Clock cycle count you need for single hash is 150000 and you also state "Clock Speed: > 600 Mhz Core Clock". Jasinlee declares 18773 clock cycles for the same purpose, so his chip is 8 times more efficient and runs at 3x slower clock. At the end Jasinlee is 2,7 times faster. Shouldn't you think about re-design.

And as already mentioned it's time to talk about manufacturing process or you are really somewhere in the middle of development?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jk_14 on December 24, 2013, 09:18:53 AM

page here: https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/. We will be taking a 30% deposit payment, and remainder 70% to be paid 8-10 weeks before shipment. Minimum chip


and: "Shipping  Booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014."


In case of 9 months (or even more, vide: experiences from bitcoin asics) of waiting for shippment - it shouldn't be a problem to have a Term, where remainder must be paid not 8-10 weeks before, but when a box is just ready for sending.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on December 24, 2013, 09:44:32 AM
So just another preorder game  >:(
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on December 24, 2013, 09:57:39 AM
hmmm am I the only one to calculate a "never ROI"....
let's say we are lucky and they ship in early febuary, with a 10% dif (optimistic considering all the noob here since 1 month and the new GC to comes) hous should earn 150€ (200$)... do you get similar resuts? plus you can resel a video card or a PC, not a old dedicated asic miner....   :o
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: sargue on December 24, 2013, 10:02:42 AM
Ok, this is my first time doing calculations to decide weather I buy or I don't buy some Vipers. Can someone please check the numbers? I don't understand how anyone would buy this.

Scenario: start hashing on 1st June 2014, difficulty 7000 (that's less than 2% increase per iteration).

The Viper 5 MH/s will be mining at about 22 LTC per month. Talking in euros you pay about 1600 € and got about 290 € per month (minus energy!). Five months and a half to ROI? No, because difficulty will rise even faster.

Put the data here: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator and anything above 1% of difficulty increase and you will not ROI. Even with free electricity (which I don't have).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: xnu on December 24, 2013, 10:16:25 AM
Ok, this is my first time doing calculations to decide weather I buy or I don't buy some Vipers. Can someone please check the numbers? I don't understand how anyone would buy this.

Businesses would buy it until it reaches industry average ROI, I don't know how much that would be, maybe 3 percent per month. For bitcoin, for example, if BTC price remains the same, does not rise, this craze will be all over in 6 months if difficulty rises at 3 percent per day (doubles every month). If BTC price would drop, it will be over sooner. So, the question, what people will do after those 6 months? Other cryptocurrencies? So, viable scenario would be to buy this if you believe litecoin price will go up or litecoin evolve to something else. For me it is too risky to believe in such optimistic scenarios.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jk_14 on December 24, 2013, 11:06:28 AM
Ok, this is my first time doing calculations to decide weather I buy or I don't buy some Vipers. Can someone please check the numbers? I don't understand how anyone would buy this.

Businesses would buy it until it reaches industry average ROI, I don't know how much that would be, maybe 3 percent per month. For bitcoin, for example, if BTC price remains the same, does not rise, this craze will be all over in 6 months if difficulty rises at 3 percent per day (doubles every month). If BTC price would drop, it will be over sooner. So, the question, what people will do after those 6 months? Other cryptocurrencies? So, viable scenario would be to buy this if you believe litecoin price will go up or litecoin evolve to something else. For me it is too risky to believe in such optimistic scenarios.

Or, from other point of view:

So, viable scenario would be to buy huge amount of litecoin now, if you believe in ASIC litecoin people's run. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: silver on December 24, 2013, 03:24:04 PM
Hi,

I was very interested in the 5 MH/s asic miner but the fact that it will ship in maybe 6 mounths, that's a bummer.
If you do the math and have 5 Mh/s NOW than this is a great deal BUT as difficulty's incrise, within 6 mounths this is no loger profitable to buy this ASIC unit. The ROI is negative...

So my advice is, don't by this device at all, you will lose money.

Have a nice day
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: brig on December 24, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
This was never going to turn out to be anything but a huge disappointment - with the exception of Avalon, when did any ASIC turn out to be anything else  :-\
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 24, 2013, 06:27:04 PM
Hi,

I was very interested in the 5 MH/s asic miner but the fact that it will ship in maybe 6 mounths, that's a bummer.
If you do the math and have 5 Mh/s NOW than this is a great deal BUT as difficulty's incrise, within 6 mounths this is no loger profitable to buy this ASIC unit. The ROI is negative...

So my advice is, don't by this device at all, you will lose money.

Have a nice day

How will you loose money, 5 watts from the wall is hardly loosing out
It still going to make you ltc
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: sargue on December 24, 2013, 06:46:28 PM
How will you loose money, 5 watts from the wall is hardly loosing out
It still going to make you ltc

The Viper 5 is rated at about 100 W, not 5 W.

But, hey, supose free electricity. Take a look at bitcoin difficulty when ASICs hit the market. Exponential difficulty increase.

With difficulty 100k your Viper 5 will be mining 1.5 LTC per month.
Jump to 1M and you get 0.15 LTC per month.
Remember the Zenon paradox? Something like that...   ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 24, 2013, 06:55:48 PM
How will you loose money, 5 watts from the wall is hardly loosing out
It still going to make you ltc

The Viper 5 is rated at about 100 W, not 5 W.

But, hey, supose free electricity. Take a look at bitcoin difficulty when ASICs hit the market. Exponential difficulty increase.

With difficulty 100k your Viper 5 will be mining 1.5 LTC per month.
Jump to 1M and you get 0.15 LTC per month.
Remember the Zenon paradox? Something like that...   ;)

You think it will be 100k by june/july?
What is the rate going up each month now then?
Its just graphics cards atm so there wont be a huge increase till these come out
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: sargue on December 24, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
With difficulty 100k your Viper 5 will be mining 1.5 LTC per month.
Jump to 1M and you get 0.15 LTC per month.
Remember the Zenon paradox? Something like that...   ;)

You think it will be 100k by june/july?
What is the rate going up each month now then?
Its just graphics cards atm so there wont be a huge increase till these come out

No, I don't think so. But nobody knows. The main problem is not the difficulty when you get the Viper, is how fast it will scale. You have basically a few months to ROI or you face the above problem. The big change will come when ASICs enter into play.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: xnu on December 24, 2013, 07:32:09 PM
when ASICs enter into play.

And probably you will get your hardware after such difficulty rise, not your hardware be the reason of such rise. But if LTC price will move up with the difficulty it may be profitable as if calculating today's reality.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 24, 2013, 07:36:15 PM
Interesting chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlhSF602y9DSdHRneWVZcjJLWmhjaVBMTHVCR3l4eHc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 24, 2013, 07:44:31 PM
also http://sluicebit.com are shipping in march hence the network difficulty going higher so it wont just be gpus before alphatech ships

but they only offer 2 MH for the lower priced version
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 24, 2013, 08:13:59 PM
also http://sluicebit.com are shipping in march hence the network difficulty going higher so it wont just be gpus before alphatech ships

but they only offer 2 MH for the lower priced version

that looks like a scam.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 24, 2013, 08:33:47 PM
also http://sluicebit.com are shipping in march hence the network difficulty going higher so it wont just be gpus before alphatech ships

but they only offer 2 MH for the lower priced version

that looks like a scam.

whys that,they have an address and phone number?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: y_boonstra on December 24, 2013, 10:23:20 PM
Alpha Technology,

I saw on your webpage that your company is only giving 6 months garanty.
As far as i know england is part of the european union and and so your company is obligated to comply to european rules so alpha technology has to give at least 1 (possible 2, not sure) years warranty.

There was a lot of debacle with Apple and the EU and there warranty time and apple had to adjust there pollicy.

im not 100% sure.. but its something worth doing some research on.




Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boomix on December 24, 2013, 10:56:15 PM
whys that,they have an address and phone number?

Name and phone number aren't much of a guarantee.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 24, 2013, 11:01:56 PM
just done more digging. i dunno how u can think dis is a scam, dexcel designs even train people for Altera http://www.altera.co.uk/education/training/partners/trn-partners.jsp (you can find them under india).. you can find dexcel being partners with other various companies if you go on partner section of websites such as texas instrument etc.

i dont trust nobody with unknown name e.g. sluicebuit. i wouldnt have even trusted alpha tech if it wasnt for dexcel designs
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 25, 2013, 04:15:06 AM
just done more digging. i dunno how u can think dis is a scam, dexcel designs even train people for Altera http://www.altera.co.uk/education/training/partners/trn-partners.jsp (you can find them under india).. you can find dexcel being partners with other various companies if you go on partner section of websites such as texas instrument etc.

i dont trust nobody with unknown name e.g. sluicebuit. i wouldnt have even trusted alpha tech if it wasnt for dexcel designs

sluicebit have released 2 videos and they have an address and phone,surely that means something
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 25, 2013, 10:26:51 AM
Registration Open + Updates (from CEO) 25/12/2013

Follow this link to view this update on our website: https://alpha-t.net/news/registration-open-updates/

This update is from CEO of Alpha Technology, Mohammed Akram:

First of all I would like to personally wish everyone a merry Christmas, happy holidays and good health. I understand a lot of people will be busy with family and enjoying holidays. So we will only be opening registration for now. Pre-ordering will be open after a few days when everyone is back.

After our previous update we had received plenty of queries. Through the below update I would like to address some of them and also further explain what sort of experienced team is working on this project full-time (regardless of holidays). Reputation is on the line for our company and our well known engineering partner Dexcel Designs http://www.dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html. Any estimates and deadlines we give will be very safe, and we wouldn't release any statistics if they were not fully verified and confirmed. Be assured that all permutations and combinations for the best design has been chosen and most suitable one to be scaled for an ASIC. Whether you are a potential backer or just onlooking our development, everyone will be given regular updates from our team in the UK and the team in India on the road to the new innovation in Scrypt-based proof of work hardware.

Registration is now open, you can register here and add your desired product and quantity to your Wishlist:

https://alpha-t.net/login-register/ (please read the full update message below)

On the 23rd December 2013 (Monday) we had released our pricing, terms and specifications information. Here are a few explanations regarding few certain customer concerns:

Shipping and Hashrate?

Due to the previous errors of other ASIC companies, hash rate and shipping we have quoted are based on worst case scenarios. We expect to out-perform these quotations. All our boards will very likely have better hash rates than estimated/published. The published hash rates will be guaranteed as bare minimum if not better.

Our partners have previously dealt with large scale manufacturing for various industries/projects for some very well known global customers. The facilities and ecosystem that are available to us in India are a huge advantage in rolling out our devices faster. A very efficient supply management system and distribution management system is set up where items will be dispatched directly from the assembly and packing line after thorough testing. Our goal is to improve significantly on our shipping estimates of Q2/Q3.

Pricing & Difficulty?

Since we expect to be the first to ship, we are only taking 30% deposit instead of the usual 100% other companies take and at the same time allowing the opportunity to get a refund in deposit. (this refund policy is fair as we are not taking 100% upfront and have certain costs to the manufacturing process to be made). We would like to avoid to lose any customer by virtue of cancellation, however please note that based on our volume projections certain costs have been arrived at. Any significant cancellations can seriously dent our pricing calculation.

Difficulty in example 5 months time will increase, but all that difficulty is not majority based on ASIC hardware like the Bitcoin network. Example. The whole Litecoin difficulty in 5 months time will be made up of GPU's. When our ASIC products ship it will be more advantageous than any GPU rig, will be more cost efficient, and much more power efficient.

Below we will display estimates on what cost and power saving advantages you get:

Viper Device 25 Mh/s: 600watts (or below) £5450 (full cost)          GPU Rig 25 Mh/s: 10,000 watts (40 GPU's @ 250watts  x 625 Kh/s)   £12,000 (excl. other costs)

Viper Device 5Mh/s: 100watts (or below) £1350 (full cost)              GPU Rig 5Mh/s: 2,000watts (8 GPU's @ 250 watts x 625 Kh/s)  £2,400 (excl. other costs)


(GPU figures above are generous, only GPU consumption, and exclude full system and cooling costs. Viper devices are full system consumption and are based on worst case scenario).

Viper device work out cheaper than what you would pay for a GPU rig, plus the advantages of virtually running it for free in comparison. GPU's will be in no comparison after you just compare the cost and power savings you will get. Regardless of which GPU is released in many years to come. ASIC is built for this task in hand, GPU's are not, therefore, space requirement is much lower and cooling costs. Running our device in comparison to a GPU device automatically makes you more profitable in terms of upfront cost, but mostly due to recurring huge energy savings. So difficulty increase has no impact on the advantages of our devices, as all the difficulty to come till our release will be made up of GPU hash rate.

Expertise and Durability?

As we are the first innovators in building a cost-efficient ASIC design, we also expect to be the first to ship especially with the backing of our engineering partners in India. Dexcel Designs have very experienced engineers, some of which have been certified by Altera and Xilinx. They are the only company in India to have partnerships with Altera for both design and training (DSN & ATPP) .

Dexcel Designs are direct certified design partners with the likes of Xilinx, Altera, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Atmel and many more. Not only it ensures that the design is done by the engineering experts, it also helps us to overcome design hurdles quicker than most other companies in the same market.

Here are some links of Dexcel Designs partnerships and work. It can be verified on their partners websites as well:

http://www.dexceldesigns.com/alliances.html

http://www.altera.co.uk/products/design_services/partners/profile/Dexcel%20Electronics%20Designs,     http://www.altera.co.uk/support/refdesigns/sys-sol/wireline/ref-dexcel.html

http://www.analog.com/en/third-party-developers/processors-dsp/dexcel-electronics-designs-ltd/tpd.html

http://www.ti.com/ww/in/third_party.html

http://www.atmel.com/about/contact/default.aspx?contactType=Design%20Consultant%20-%20AVR&Products=010%20Atmel%20AVR%208-%20and%2032-bit%20Microcontrollers

Misc. Updates

Prices are the same worldwide. And any additional shipping cost will be charged at the time of final payment.

Deposit payment and final payment can be paid through different payment options, e.g. deposit can be paid with Bitcoins, and end payment with Bank Transfer.

After shipment we will be rolling out regular firmware and software updates.

What Next?

Overall, transparency is crucial in our plans ahead. We will be giving live updates on every part of the production process we are on, this will give customers a better idea on the good news we will have to give in regards to overall hash rate, lowered power consumption and shortened shipping timeline.

We are innovating in making scrypt hashing affordable using ASIC Technology, which has never been done before. We would like the community to join us on the ride to make scrypt hashing more cost efficient and power efficient. Our long-term plans are to carry on innovating in Scrypt technology, this would mean rolling out cheaper and faster devices in the months and years to come.

In The Coming week what you can expect

1. Product Images and ASIC POC prototype demonstration (on high end FPGA platform)

2. Order books opening

Happy Christmas once again.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on December 25, 2013, 10:46:54 AM
Be assured that all permutations and combinations for the best design has been chosen and most suitable one to be scaled for an ASIC.

I have a technical query about your design spec.
Quote
ASIC Chip Specs
Process: 28nm/40nm HPP, 3.3v/1.8v
Internal Memory: >=128Mb SRAM
Gates: ~28M Gates
Clock Speed: > 600 Mhz Core Clock
Hashing Cores: >= 128
Chip Hash rate: > 350 Kh/s
Power Consumption: < 5w

128 cores with 128Mbit of RAM (big chip!) implies 1Mbit of RAM per core. This is a Time/Memory TradeOff (TMTO) ratio of 1. On FPGA I achieved an optimal design with a TMTO of 4, while GPUs typically run with LOOKAHEAD_GAP (same thing) of 2. To put it bluntly, I contend that either you have not achieved the "best design", or your specs are a being little economical with the truth. Could you address this concern please? Also what stage is your development actually at, and when do you plan to sign-off the final design for production?

There were some other queries on Jasinlee's thread (link) (https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.msg82148#msg82148) that you may wish to address too.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on December 25, 2013, 11:13:33 AM

...
 Also what stage is your development actually at, and when do you plan to sign-off the final design for production?
[/quote]

I'm interested in that, too before I preorder anything.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: silver on December 25, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Mmhh, http://alpha-t.net/ (http://alpha-t.net/) is down.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 25, 2013, 01:17:36 PM
Just two things, I don't really like as engineer:
1. "Process: 28nm/40nm HPP, 3.3v/1.8v" <- both 25 nm and 40 nm processes are low voltage processes. Here for the real chip value should be between 0.9 and 1.3 volts. That means, that you have integrated voltage converter on the same die. Or how is that managed?
2. Clock cycle count you need for single hash is 150000 and you also state "Clock Speed: > 600 Mhz Core Clock". Jasinlee declares 18773 clock cycles for the same purpose, so his chip is 8 times more efficient and runs at 3x slower clock. At the end Jasinlee is 2,7 times faster. Shouldn't you think about re-design.

And as already mentioned it's time to talk about manufacturing process or you are really somewhere in the middle of development?

To answer some of the main questions posed above:

1.The core voltage will be 0.9v and I/Os can operate at 1.8v /3.3v. Voltage regulators will be all on board

2.We know exactly how these numbers are arrived at as explained below
PBKDF2 (A/B): 1365 cycles
SALSA (RD/WR): ((2*4*1024)*2) + 1024 = 17,408 cycles
Total = 18,773 cycles
 
When you implement things in FPGA you have a choice to make either to run logic at higher frequency by effectively dividing the logic in such a way that fmax achieved is high or you can choose to implement in very efficient clock cycles, by implementing complicated combinatorial logic, albeit this comes at a price because core frequency cannot be scaled to higher frequencies. ASICs work differently than FPGAs where higher frequencies are achievable if routing conditions are not so stringent. And since we are aiming to take this RTL to ASIC we chose the other way around.
 
We would like our comments to be reserved on some of the technicalities as its internal to our design and wouldn’t want to reveal too much on such an open forum.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: linusbrauner on December 25, 2013, 01:48:53 PM
To point 2. That smells like shit. Sorry. I have here nice document called "Scrypt ASIC Prototyping Preliminary Design Document" and I see very different calculation than this, provided here. This here is copy/pasted from jasinlee's datasheet. Your initial calculation assumed you will need 18 sha256 operations, not 21 like in jasinlee's implementation. Now in couple days a complete re-design is done? Dude, don't lie to us!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 25, 2013, 02:03:07 PM
AlphaTechnology you are doing a fantastic job working through christmas to give us these updates
How many will be available in batch 1 for both vipers?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 25, 2013, 02:12:28 PM
To point 2. That smells like shit. Sorry. I have here nice document called "Scrypt ASIC Prototyping Preliminary Design Document" and I see very different calculation than this, provided here. This here is copy/pasted from jasinlee's datasheet. Your initial calculation assumed you will need 18 sha256 operations, not 21 like in jasinlee's implementation. Now in couple days a complete re-design is done? Dude, don't lie to us!

We have not changed the design.... and it will be in line to our design document published. We are just explaining why we did not go for those low clock cycles implementation.

And just so you know Scrypt is an open algorithm with very limited functions and there is no big deal computing these numbers. Some fresh engineers can also do that after looking at the algorithm. 


AlphaTechnology you are doing a fantastic job working through christmas to give us these updates
How many will be available in batch 1 for both vipers?

Site is down again due to high traffic from customers registering. We are working through this to increase further performance. Thanks for your patience
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on December 25, 2013, 02:51:08 PM
To point 2. That smells like shit. Sorry. I have here nice document called "Scrypt ASIC Prototyping Preliminary Design Document" and I see very different calculation than this, provided here. This here is copy/pasted from jasinlee's datasheet. Your initial calculation assumed you will need 18 sha256 operations, not 21 like in jasinlee's implementation. Now in couple days a complete re-design is done? Dude, don't lie to us!

being polite will make your sound more intelligent you know.... I'm fed up with people thinking being rude make more  weight on what they say....
thanks.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 25, 2013, 03:09:05 PM
Be assured that all permutations and combinations for the best design has been chosen and most suitable one to be scaled for an ASIC.

I have a technical query about your design spec.
Quote
ASIC Chip Specs
Process: 28nm/40nm HPP, 3.3v/1.8v
Internal Memory: >=128Mb SRAM
Gates: ~28M Gates
Clock Speed: > 600 Mhz Core Clock
Hashing Cores: >= 128
Chip Hash rate: > 350 Kh/s
Power Consumption: < 5w

128 cores with 128Mbit of RAM (big chip!) implies 1Mbit of RAM per core. This is a Time/Memory TradeOff (TMTO) ratio of 1. On FPGA I achieved an optimal design with a TMTO of 4, while GPUs typically run with LOOKAHEAD_GAP (same thing) of 2. To put it bluntly, I contend that either you have not achieved the "best design", or your specs are a being little economical with the truth. Could you address this concern please? Also what stage is your development actually at, and when do you plan to sign-off the final design for production?

There were some other queries on Jasinlee's thread (link) (https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.msg82148#msg82148) that you may wish to address too.


In response to Kramble:

TMTO as it stands for Time Memory trade off is a choice a designer makes depending on the resources that he is made available to so that he can do some calculations JIT thus reducing memory though increasing the time. This is largely applicable to ready ICs where we don’t have choice of increasing either of them and we start doing trade offs. Similar analogy is applicable even in embedded world , Space Time Trade off as it is called.

Since we are doing the design afresh in ASIC, we decided not to compromise on time and are making plenty of memory available. We know it increases cost a bit but we are fine absorbing these costs.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: BitcoinFridge on December 25, 2013, 03:32:43 PM
Once you have these available, would I be able to purchase directly from your Manchester shop as I'm only 20 miles down the road . Thanks
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 25, 2013, 03:59:45 PM
I live in the US and don't have VAT. Would there be a discount?
Thanks,
Brian
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on December 25, 2013, 04:02:23 PM
Since we are doing the design afresh in ASIC, we decided not to compromise on time and are making plenty of memory available. We know it increases cost a bit but we are fine absorbing these costs.

Thanks for the straightforward reply. IMHO this is the wrong call, as RAM is by far the most expensive component (in die area). Its not a cost that you are absorbing, but a huge performance deficit that you are passing on to your customers. By using a TMTO of say 4, you would achieve roughly double the performance at the same cost in die area. Its your design though, and I guess that you are not sufficiently far along yet that this is cast in stone (or Silicon even  ;) )

Best of luck anyway, and a Happy Holidays to you and your team.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 25, 2013, 04:27:50 PM
Once you have these available, would I be able to purchase directly from your Manchester shop as I'm only 20 miles down the road . Thanks

chances are they will only be shipping from india to your address, i dont think you can buy them from there office off the shelf.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 25, 2013, 06:38:12 PM
Since we are doing the design afresh in ASIC, we decided not to compromise on time and are making plenty of memory available. We know it increases cost a bit but we are fine absorbing these costs.

Thanks for the straightforward reply. IMHO this is the wrong call, as RAM is by far the most expensive component (in die area). Its not a cost that you are absorbing, but a huge performance deficit that you are passing on to your customers. By using a TMTO of say 4, you would achieve roughly double the performance at the same cost in die area. Its your design though, and I guess that you are not sufficiently far along yet that this is cast in stone (or Silicon even  ;) )

Best of luck anyway, and a Happy Holidays to you and your team.

Thanks for the advise and we assure you that we have looked into all the aspects and will not make any decisions which will make our products more expensive for our customers. The price of our products have been already out and the low cost/hash has been more than a proof in itself.

We also wish you a very happy Christmas once again and very happy holidays to you too.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 25, 2013, 08:31:18 PM
Will we see the video of it running/working before you take pre-orders?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dimitar on December 25, 2013, 08:52:13 PM
Hey,
Viper's are gonna be able to mine any scrypt coin or just LTC's ?

merry xmas
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: LouReed on December 25, 2013, 09:00:57 PM
Just curious, how does one register? I go to the Login/Register page and all it allows me to do is login, no option for registration.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ltran2 on December 25, 2013, 09:11:16 PM
Same, How do you register on the website? there's no registration button....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 25, 2013, 09:13:01 PM
Just curious, how does one register? I go to the Login/Register page and all it allows me to do is login, no option for registration.

supposedly today or tomorrow. Registration will be open.

Is this only for UK residents? Or? As I live in the US and is no VAT
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on December 25, 2013, 09:15:33 PM
Yep, where is the registration button?
Its still 25th.


You have written in your update-news "Any estimates and deadlines we give will be very safe", so why theres no registration button?

Will we be able to do a preorder without registration next week?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on December 25, 2013, 09:42:52 PM
Same, How do you register on the website? there's no registration button....

They have stated on twitter: "Will notify everyone when our site is up again."

We have to wait for this notification, alpha technology has more than 1 hour left, then its 26th. And whats then? Further registration process on 26th? Or something else?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on December 25, 2013, 10:13:54 PM
lol and down again, Error 521.

And back again, and still no registration button. oO
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 25, 2013, 10:40:35 PM
lol and down again, Error 521.

And back again, and still no registration button. oO

bunch of goofballs. Can't even get the launch, right?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 26, 2013, 06:20:06 AM
Why is there such whining people wanting to register on christmas day geee
Just wait till January for christs sake
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ltcminingltd on December 26, 2013, 06:49:33 AM
Good Sirs! Why can't one register on your website. - Stop -
The 25th has been and gone. - Stop -
Please Advise. - Stop -
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Raw-H on December 26, 2013, 10:52:54 AM
Good Sirs! Why can't one register on your website. - Stop -
The 25th has been and gone. - Stop -
Please Advise. - Stop -

https://twitter.com/UkAlpha

Site is down -stop-
Due to high amount of registrations -stop-

dafuq -stop-
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 26, 2013, 11:25:46 AM
We would like to apologise for the downtime of our website. We have fixed some stability bug and performance issues which took much longer to achieve due to the holidays. Registration is now open, you can register here and add your desired product and quantity to your Wishlist:

https://alpha-t.net/login-register/  Also please read the previous update which was released on 25/12/2013 Christmas Day.

Thank you for your patience.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: flopzie on December 26, 2013, 11:30:06 AM
The site serves me a login page at that URL, with no option to actually 'register' or to use a wish list.

Maybe a fantastic way of harvesting passwords  :-X (JOKING)

Is this normal, Alpha?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: netvope on December 26, 2013, 11:32:00 AM
Registration is now open, you can register here and add your desired product and quantity to your Wishlist:

https://alpha-t.net/login-register/

There is only login, but no register
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: sikman on December 26, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
seems to be working now, I just registered and logged in successfully
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: flopzie on December 26, 2013, 11:48:51 AM
Likewise - working now.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: timvan007 on December 26, 2013, 01:56:39 PM
Just registered as well.

Alpha - Was wondering if you have a way to put images of the end product on the site at all? It is nice to see the chip, but a feel for the end product on the product page would go a long way for me personally. Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 26, 2013, 02:11:35 PM
Will we see the video of it running/working before you take pre-orders?

1. Hi are you able to answer my previous post?
2. And will you be able to give this to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
3. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
4. How can your price for for 25Mh/s be £5450/$8944 and Jasinlees be £13700/$22500, basically nearly triple the price? Something just doesn't seem right and is making me feel very uneasy about this. Can you pull out the stops to really prove you can do what your saying before putting them out for pre-ordering? This would go a long long way to help with customer confidence in your company and it's products.

Hope you understand that these are questions that I'm sure are on most customers minds and would really help if we could get answers to.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 26, 2013, 02:31:32 PM
Also the part on your website that sais this
Quote
‘On Hold’ orders when paying via Bank Transfer are awaiting confirmation, you will receive an email once your transfer has been confirmed and your status will change to ‘Processing’. Note. our bank account information has been emailed to you. If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.
Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say
Quote
If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.
. I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: wireguysny on December 26, 2013, 06:01:14 PM
I am very interested in this product line but Why?? do US customers have to pay prices with VAT??? Its bad enough the Euro adds 22% to our pricing but the VAT is also 30% tax we do not have to pay. We would pay the duty here on the forms that would be required to get the product regardless..so this should be addressed unless Alpha is not interested in the US market.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 26, 2013, 07:38:58 PM
I am very interested in this product line but Why?? do US customers have to pay prices with VAT??? Its bad enough the Euro adds 22% to our pricing but the VAT is also 30% tax we do not have to pay. We would pay the duty here on the forms that would be required to get the product regardless..so this should be addressed unless Alpha is not interested in the US market.

I've tried to get them to answer this question as well.

What about US customers? Do you not want? If that's the case, just let people know. So they can plan accordingly.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 26, 2013, 07:47:57 PM
Website is offline The server may be down for maintenance, there may be a network problem, or the site may be experiencing excessive load.
Error 522 Ray ID: e30478efa9b084a
Connection timed out.

Down again
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 26, 2013, 07:57:08 PM
+1

I've asked this question via email and still no response. Alpha you claim to have accounting background so I will give you the benefit of a doubt that you are not familiar with VAT rules when it comes to non-UK/EU customers. I quote "VAT is a tax charged on goods used in the EU, so if goods are exported outside the EU, VAT isn't charged. You can zero-rate the sale, provided you get and keep evidence of the export, and comply with all other laws." (ref: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm#6 (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm#6))! No matter how you look at it you are exporting when you ship to address outside of UK.

Please post your prices - VAT for non-EU customers!!!

Also, a very important question would be whether Viper will have an International power supply to support other countries (ex: [email protected]) or would we have to get a transformer at extra cost to power this thing???

Sorry, I really would like this project to kick off, but there is still lot's of unanswered questions that could increase the total cost of ownership and make all of us uneasy  :-\

I am very interested in this product line but Why?? do US customers have to pay prices with VAT??? Its bad enough the Euro adds 22% to our pricing but the VAT is also 30% tax we do not have to pay. We would pay the duty here on the forms that would be required to get the product regardless..so this should be addressed unless Alpha is not interested in the US market.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 26, 2013, 08:07:24 PM
website is up now. But both products appear to be out of stock.
this is probably a blessing in disguise. Company seems out of touch with customers.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: oldmarsh on December 26, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
Has anyone living in Manchester been past this address and see if they actually occupy it:

66 Dickenson Road
Manchester
M14 5HF

Picture of their office:

http://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/office.png
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: PatG9234 on December 26, 2013, 09:01:26 PM
Since Litecoin is scrypt and this ASIC will be using scrypt - I assume this will work with other scrypt-based cryptocurrencies?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 26, 2013, 09:16:39 PM
Has anyone living in Manchester been past this address and see if they actually occupy it:

66 Dickenson Road
Manchester
M14 5HF

Picture of their office:

http://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/office.png

It looks legit as the pic on the about us page matches what Google Maps street view shows. According to Google in Oct. 2012 this office space was vacant. Oh just note that when you look for the address on Google Maps for some reason it shows you the street view one block down the street and this office is between their parent company (M.Acram & Co.) @ 64 Dickenson to the right and a bike shop (Bicycle Doctors) @ 68-70 Dickenson to the left.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Phidian on December 26, 2013, 09:24:49 PM
Has anyone living in Manchester been past this address and see if they actually occupy it:

66 Dickenson Road
Manchester
M14 5HF

Picture of their office:

http://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/office.png

This guy on Reddit indicates he will be swinging by: http://www.reddit.com/user/AAAdamKK

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 26, 2013, 09:44:34 PM
So I see they removed all quotes of VAT being included from the prices listed on their site while the prices remained the same. So does that mean that VAT is still included in the original price or did the UK/EU residents just got a 20% price increase due to added VAT??? That is very shady for an accounting company!  >:(
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Phidian on December 26, 2013, 10:00:26 PM
So I see they removed all quotes of VAT being included from the prices listed on their site while the prices remained the same. So does that mean that VAT is still included in the original price or did the UK/EU residents just got a 20% price increase due to added VAT??? That is very shady for an accounting company!  >:(

I hope they do the appropriate homework with regard to VAT taxation and international sales, they can get themselves into hot water if they don't handle that correctly. But your right, just removing the mention of VAT suddenly from the web page does not bolster confidence, nor is it a solution to VAT tax collection.

I have an inquiry with "HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC)" on how that should be handled(as i'm no expert either), and if there is any reclaim recourse for customers who pay it but are not required to (we have duty/import taxes,etc).

-Phid

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boomix on December 26, 2013, 10:09:34 PM
VAT on exports is not supposed to be charged. I've ordered from amazon.co.uk before and they have knocked VAT 20% off the final price. If these guys are an accounting and have no clue in regards to taxation rules I'll be sticking with ltcgear.com at least main guy for them is active and replies to questions.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 27, 2013, 06:23:10 AM
We apologise for any confusion caused, the pricing was corrected on the same day as release. Please note prices quoted are exclusive of any applicable duties/taxes/shipment charges. Depending on the shipment destination of the device suitable charges will be applied during final checkout. VAT will not be charged for any exports, however in the destined country duty has to be paid by the importer /user as per local custom rules.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on December 27, 2013, 07:01:54 AM
So I see they removed all quotes of VAT being included from the prices listed on their site while the prices remained the same. So does that mean that VAT is still included in the original price or did the UK/EU residents just got a 20% price increase due to added VAT???

You were right, indeed.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: wireguysny on December 27, 2013, 01:41:18 PM
So then how will US customers know the proper deposit and final costs...has this been updated on their website...I appreciate the response to our question buy that's all it was...not an answer...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boomix on December 27, 2013, 02:32:50 PM
We apologise for any confusion caused, the pricing was corrected on the same day as release. Please note prices quoted are exclusive of any applicable duties/taxes/shipment charges. Depending on the shipment destination of the device suitable charges will be applied during final checkout. VAT will not be charged for any exports, however in the destined country duty has to be paid by the importer /user as per local custom rules.

Thank you for clarification.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: y_boonstra on December 27, 2013, 05:19:47 PM
We apologise for any confusion caused, the pricing was corrected on the same day as release. Please note prices quoted are exclusive of any applicable duties/taxes/shipment charges. Depending on the shipment destination of the device suitable charges will be applied during final checkout. VAT will not be charged for any exports, however in the destined country duty has to be paid by the importer /user as per local custom rules.

So are you shipping from the UK or outside the EU..
cause that means we (EU) residents have to pay 20% extra of the total price (yes including the shiiping costs)

that would suck..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 27, 2013, 05:29:58 PM
good luck people with your orders. Too many red flags for me.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: JunJun on December 27, 2013, 09:11:28 PM
I went on a scouting mission earlier today after work, to see if this place and people really existed. Unfortunately it was closed but I did manage to get a full paparazzi shot of the shop lol. I'll try again tomorrow (if they're open) or next week.

(http://i.imgur.com/jDe0R29.jpg)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: basti84 on December 27, 2013, 09:14:06 PM
ohoh .. looks very "serious" to me ... not
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 27, 2013, 10:09:53 PM
many thanks for posting pictures of their operation. Looks like the ghetto.. Well I'm not giving out donations to this company :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on December 27, 2013, 10:27:36 PM
Jeez louise this is a tough crowd. You are judging a startup because their storefront is not in the high rent district. Where do you expect the money to come from, Santa Claus? Higher rent equals higher product cost.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: CGMChick on December 27, 2013, 10:36:17 PM
The company was set-up on 30 nov 2013.

The only director is mr Mohammad Akram, born 1948.

Be careful. This could be a shell company to take orders and then go out of business. Need to see sight of contracts or orders placed for fabrication. He is not doing it out of this backstreet shop.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 27, 2013, 10:37:15 PM
I feel a little bit messed about not being told about the VAT prices! How come this is not upfront it is seriously adding more and more doubts!

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Giga on December 27, 2013, 10:45:35 PM
I went on a scouting mission earlier today after work, to see if this place and people really existed. Unfortunately it was closed but I did manage to get a full paparazzi shot of the shop lol. I'll try again tomorrow (if they're open) or next week.

(http://i.imgur.com/jDe0R29.jpg)

nice find JunJun good job!

looks more like a Doner kebab shop hahaha

Seriously though, Alpha tech need to clarify their absurd pricing and late delivery and lack of info right here before even expecting us to buy these miners.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 27, 2013, 10:46:17 PM
Hi I appreciate you must be very busy but would you be able to look at these questions I have.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say
Quote
If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.
. I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

Also the questions I asked a couple of posts back:

2. Will we be able to see video demonstration of these asics running before you make them available for pre-order?
3. And will you be able to give this to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
4. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
5. How can your price for for 25Mh/s be £5450/$8944 and Jasinlees be £13700/$22500, basically nearly triple the price? Something just doesn't seem right and is making me feel very uneasy about this. Can you pull out the stops to really prove you can do what your saying before putting them out for pre-ordering? This would go a long long way to help with customer confidence in your company and it's products.
6. If I am living in the UK how much would I pay for each model including VAT?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time answer these questions.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Giga on December 27, 2013, 10:50:18 PM
Hi I appreciate you must be very busy but would you be able to look at these questions I have.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say
Quote
If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.
. I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

Also the questions I asked a couple of posts back:

2. Will we be able to see video demonstration of these asics running before you make them available for pre-order?
3. And will you be able to give this to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
4. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
5. How can your price for for 25Mh/s be £5450/$8944 and Jasinlees be £13700/$22500, basically nearly triple the price? Something just doesn't seem right and is making me feel very uneasy about this. Can you pull out the stops to really prove you can do what your saying before putting them out for pre-ordering? This would go a long long way to help with customer confidence in your company and it's products.
6. If I am living in the UK how much would I pay for each model including VAT?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time answer these questions.

i would absolutely support the idea alpha tech provides test units to folks in the UK from the community here, I'm sure we have many UKers here who would be happy to test their equipment. I think this is a great idea, what do you say alpha tech? this way you can gain consumer confidence when our UK litecoin peeps confirm that your stuff is the real deal.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 27, 2013, 10:50:58 PM
Jeez louise this is a tough crowd. You are judging a startup because their storefront is not in the high rent district. Where do you expect the money to come from, Santa Claus? Higher rent equals higher product cost.

tough crowd? Higher rent district? I mean seriously.. This company is going to do millions of dollars in business(potentially)..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on December 27, 2013, 10:55:47 PM
Jeez louise this is a tough crowd. You are judging a startup because their storefront is not in the high rent district. Where do you expect the money to come from, Santa Claus? Higher rent equals higher product cost.

tough crowd? Higher rent district? I mean seriously.. This company is going to do millions of dollars in business(potentially)..

Spoken like a kid who has never started a business from scratch.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 27, 2013, 11:59:04 PM
Jeez louise this is a tough crowd. You are judging a startup because their storefront is not in the high rent district. Where do you expect the money to come from, Santa Claus? Higher rent equals higher product cost.

tough crowd? Higher rent district? I mean seriously.. This company is going to do millions of dollars in business(potentially)..

Spoken like a kid who has never started a business from scratch.

LOL, have my own business and started from scratch. Definitely not a kid and why you would be sticking up for that operation, is beyond me. Look at some of the other successful companies offer miners and see their business place.

regards,
Brian
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Xer0 on December 28, 2013, 12:16:39 AM
Microsoft started in a garage... so what?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 28, 2013, 12:33:41 AM
Microsoft started in a garage... so what?

sure, go ahead and placed an order. I don't like the terms nor the shop. I will also say somebody's selling these units on eBay.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on December 28, 2013, 01:09:48 AM
I don't mind their "storefront", and the lack of a hashing demo is understandable since the chip is still in the design phase (nothing to demo yet).

However I don't think their dodging the VAT issue (including ninja-editing their 23/12 news release to remove mention of VAT after the fact) speaks well towards their business practices.

Please Alpha, do yourself a favor and address the issue instead of trying to hide it.  Your reputation will benefit if you take the high road.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 28, 2013, 02:41:25 AM
I don't mind their "storefront", and the lack of a hashing demo is understandable since the chip is still in the design phase (nothing to demo yet).

However I don't think their dodging the VAT issue (including ninja-editing their 23/12 news release to remove mention of VAT after the fact) speaks well towards their business practices.

Please Alpha, do yourself a favor and address the issue instead of trying to hide it.  Your reputation will benefit if you take the high road.

Thank you for your message. No question is being avoided, we have mentioned VAT on our last message, and also on our FAQ and product page. But let me clarify according to location:

On final payment UK customers will be added VAT
On final payment EU (non-business) customers will be added VAT
On final payment EU Businesses will provide their VAT number therefore will not be charged added VAT
On final payment Non-EU customers will not be added VAT

I hope that answers your question. Our office in Manchester is dedicated to sales, support and various other things. Main engineering work and manufacturing is being dealt with in bangalore India, at Dexcel Designs' facility. We are also releasing a video mid-next week introducing the engineering team in India and ASIC demonstration on a high end prototyping board.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ltcwest on December 28, 2013, 02:47:40 AM
Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 28, 2013, 03:06:46 AM
They are doing sales and support, im sure you do nott need a big mansion/apple complex to do that.  plus dexcel is the main engineer partner behind all this, they are the daddiessss... pluss does jason lee have an ofifce building? or anyone else? if anything makes them look more legitimate.

i do nt knw what taking picture is proving, it is quite funny, person hiding in car taking pics and runin away.

 If anything picture taker is looking like the stlker/weirdo!!!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: JunJun on December 28, 2013, 07:51:32 AM
i do nt knw what taking picture is proving, it is quite funny, person hiding in car taking pics and runin away.

 If anything picture taker is looking like the stlker/weirdo!!!

Its called front line reporting lol.  :P

I was seriously considering buying one of these units having missed out on the Bitcoin race and seeing as these guys are literally around the corner from where I live, but the price tag when VAT is added on is a bit too steep for the potential return. Probably more profitable buying a load of LTC now and then waiting for all these ASICs to be released in the hope that prices will spike.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 28, 2013, 08:27:43 AM
Hi I appreciate you must be very busy but would you be able to look at these questions I have.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say
Quote
If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.
. I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

Also the questions I asked a couple of posts back:

2. Will we be able to see video demonstration of these asics running before you make them available for pre-order?
3. And will you be able to give this to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
4. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
5. How can your price for for 25Mh/s be £5450/$8944 and Jasinlees be £13700/$22500, basically nearly triple the price? Something just doesn't seem right and is making me feel very uneasy about this. Can you pull out the stops to really prove you can do what your saying before putting them out for pre-ordering? This would go a long long way to help with customer confidence in your company and it's products.
6. If I am living in the UK how much would I pay for each model including VAT?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time answer these questions.

i would absolutely support the idea alpha tech provides test units to folks in the UK from the community here, I'm sure we have many UKers here who would be happy to test their equipment. I think this is a great idea, what do you say alpha tech? this way you can gain consumer confidence when our UK litecoin peeps confirm that your stuff is the real deal.

it would make sense to let indians test the miner as thats where there produced,not uk
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on December 28, 2013, 10:46:09 AM
i do nt knw what taking picture is proving, it is quite funny, person hiding in car taking pics and runin away.

 If anything picture taker is looking like the stlker/weirdo!!!

Its called front line reporting lol.  :P

I was seriously considering buying one of these units having missed out on the Bitcoin race and seeing as these guys are literally around the corner from where I live, but the price tag when VAT is added on is a bit too steep for the potential return. Probably more profitable buying a load of LTC now and then waiting for all these ASICs to be released in the hope that prices will spike.
I agree, plus you can sell back video cards, not dedicated miners...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 28, 2013, 12:29:07 PM
Hi I appreciate you must be very busy but would you be able to look at these questions I have.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say
Quote
If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.
. I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

Also the questions I asked a couple of posts back:

2. Will we be able to see video demonstration of these asics running before you make them available for pre-order?
3. And will you be able to give this to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
4. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
5. How can your price for for 25Mh/s be £5450/$8944 and Jasinlees be £13700/$22500, basically nearly triple the price? Something just doesn't seem right and is making me feel very uneasy about this. Can you pull out the stops to really prove you can do what your saying before putting them out for pre-ordering? This would go a long long way to help with customer confidence in your company and it's products.
6. If I am living in the UK how much would I pay for each model including VAT?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time answer these questions.

i would absolutely support the idea alpha tech provides test units to folks in the UK from the community here, I'm sure we have many UKers here who would be happy to test their equipment. I think this is a great idea, what do you say alpha tech? this way you can gain consumer confidence when our UK litecoin peeps confirm that your stuff is the real deal.

it would make sense to let indians test the miner as thats where there produced,not uk

I'm also unsure about this after the unexpected VAT increasement. It would make sense for trusted members off this site to test them whoever or wherever they are, that is something that really needs to happen.

Please Alpha can you answer my questions from above. I see you have replied twice to other peoples posts but not mine and theres a few questions there that may cover what quite a few other people may be thinking. Really appreciate it if you can take a look.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: atlosas on December 28, 2013, 02:08:14 PM
Why did u excluded VAT? This is so lame of you, u just increased the price by 20%+ but in the most ugly manner possible. Starting to act like BFL ? 6 month warranty? Really? I think that is not only unprofessional but might be illegal too. Now all you need is make those asic and then mine with them till other companies catch up, difficulty skyrockets and then ship those useless devices as slow as possible. You are losing your reputation and you didn't even started preorders. Include VAT and make warranty at least 1 year.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 28, 2013, 05:02:28 PM
I don't think this is going to end well.. But it's your money, spend it how you would like. Too many red flags for me.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: wireguysny on December 28, 2013, 05:32:34 PM
pretty sure these guys have shot themselves in the foot here on this forum..they might as well bow out and just focus elsewhere- i think we all are boggled about how this most important recent project update went and how the information was ill conceived from the beginning and not thoroughly prepared. Its a worlds market now a days and Litecoin has spawned the globe..any company in this sector should prepare for being a global presence or else this will happen.... I was interested just to be competitive with the next miner but to be honest I really hope ASIC never successfully comes to Litecoin because it will take out the everyday person... thank god for 18 months no interest at Best Buy to build my rigs or I would have been watching from the sidelines... yet mining 1.2 coins a day right now is fun and my machines are relevant at this point...was just going to sell one on ebay and get the VIPER but thats out the picture at this point...ill wait to see what LTCGEAR and that Canadian company come up with in the next sixty days... if ASIC truly comes to LiteCoin ill probably dump that 2 grand into coins as value would probably go higher 4th Q this year and that would be a larger payoff..wish I had bought at $14 a few days ago :( ...live and learn
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 28, 2013, 07:13:43 PM
pretty sure these guys have shot themselves in the foot here on this forum..they might as well bow out and just focus elsewhere- i think we all are boggled about how this most important recent project update went and how the information was ill conceived from the beginning and not thoroughly prepared. Its a worlds market now a days and Litecoin has spawned the globe..any company in this sector should prepare for being a global presence or else this will happen.... I was interested just to be competitive with the next miner but to be honest I really hope ASIC never successfully comes to Litecoin because it will take out the everyday person... thank god for 18 months no interest at Best Buy to build my rigs or I would have been watching from the sidelines... yet mining 1.2 coins a day right now is fun and my machines are relevant at this point...was just going to sell one on ebay and get the VIPER but thats out the picture at this point...ill wait to see what LTCGEAR and that Canadian company come up with in the next sixty days... if ASIC truly comes to LiteCoin ill probably dump that 2 grand into coins as value would probably go higher 4th Q this year and that would be a larger payoff..wish I had bought at $14 a few days ago :( ...live and learn

shot themself in foot? what u talkin about?!! you posted on flower tech saying your excited, when clearly they are one person called brock with no company affiliation or any details, maybe you are brock's other account? ;)..

alpha techs and  mainly dexcel designs are the only legitimate asic developer, any intelligent person can see this... they arent aceptin orders yet or anythin and im non-eu don#'t pay vat, what's the issue?? let me go buy some flowers from flower tech :P

plus im excited to see their prototype video.. if they do release, this will be hugeeee for me, what about everyone else?


erm i would like  1 year warranty, but i reviewed legality and they are in the right.. distance regulation selling says any warranty is an extra thing given from company.... especially 1 year, please review, i am not even english and i know more then u peeps!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on December 28, 2013, 07:23:12 PM
As it has always been true, first one to ship gets the orders. No one knows if it will be Alpha Technology or Fibonacci at this point, will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: wireguysny on December 28, 2013, 08:37:50 PM
Im excited if ANYONE can make anything at $0.30 a KHS,, this could be GPU based, ASIC based or magic crystal base... it would be one heck of an accomplishment... I guess being a hardware guy I more excited about the engineering aspects and how they could achieve such a low rate and GPU manufactuers could easily take note and make more cards like the HD 7990 that have a ton of GPUs on them for cheap... the problem I have with ASIC is what BFL labs did to people like me who spent $3k to have fun in something new and maybe break even... I tell my wife its like being in the digital version of the Yukon in 1910....even if I dont make tons of money EVER I want to say in a few years I was part of that... so my ideals are not greed related in this case.... I said something positive in the Flower forum because of the tech aspects of such a design- I am an engineer by trade so I love pushing the envelope while lowering cost... I just feel  Alpha made a mess with the way they came out to the world and im not alone... so by all means put an order in for their machine if its all about money for your reasons.. it will just end my fun a little earlier like in BTC mining, but id like to enjoy this for another year... in the mean time I want to see as many garage shops break the engineering barriers for the sake of inventing... these are fun times to be part of
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on December 28, 2013, 08:42:35 PM
Im excited if ANYONE can make anything at $0.30 a KHS,, this could be GPU based, ASIC based or magic crystal base... it would be one heck of an accomplishment... I guess being a hardware guy I more excited about the engineering aspects and how they could achieve such a low rate and GPU manufactuers could easily take note and make more cards like the HD 7990 that have a ton of GPUs on them for cheap... the problem I have with ASIC is what BFL labs did to people like me who spent $3k to have fun in something new and maybe break even... I tell my wife its like being in the digital version of the Yukon in 1910....even if I dont make tons of money EVER I want to say in a few years I was part of that... so my ideals are not greed related in this case.... I said something positive in the Flower forum because of the tech aspects of such a design- I am an engineer by trade so I love pushing the envelope while lowering cost... I just feel  Alpha made a mess with the way they came out to the world and im not alone... so by all means put an order in for their machine if its all about money for your reasons.. it will just end my fun a little earlier like in BTC mining, but id like to enjoy this for another year... in the mean time I want to see as many garage shops break the engineering barriers for the sake of inventing... these are fun times to be part of

*slow clap*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: CGMChick on December 28, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
Im excited if ANYONE can make anything at $0.30 a KHS,, this could be GPU based, ASIC based or magic crystal base... it would be one heck of an accomplishment... I guess being a hardware guy I more excited about the engineering aspects and how they could achieve such a low rate and GPU manufactuers could easily take note and make more cards like the HD 7990 that have a ton of GPUs on them for cheap... the problem I have with ASIC is what BFL labs did to people like me who spent $3k to have fun in something new and maybe break even... I tell my wife its like being in the digital version of the Yukon in 1910....even if I dont make tons of money EVER I want to say in a few years I was part of that... so my ideals are not greed related in this case.... I said something positive in the Flower forum because of the tech aspects of such a design- I am an engineer by trade so I love pushing the envelope while lowering cost... I just feel  Alpha made a mess with the way they came out to the world and im not alone... so by all means put an order in for their machine if its all about money for your reasons.. it will just end my fun a little earlier like in BTC mining, but id like to enjoy this for another year... in the mean time I want to see as many garage shops break the engineering barriers for the sake of inventing... these are fun times to be part of

*slow clap*

No need for that. He has good intentions, just like the creator of litecoin who has given you an opportunity to make some serious money.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on December 28, 2013, 09:29:01 PM
That is actually sincere. This has been what I keep on saying to an extent, and most of the time I get disbelief as a response.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on December 28, 2013, 10:35:45 PM
raj_kapur - You are the biggest ass licker of alpha tech on this forum my friend.What were you promised for pimpin the product ? 30% disscount minus vat  ;) Dont u get it , people are just afraid of losing money. No fun or "eximent"in that. I just wanna say that if dexcell is a proffesional company that deals with big global brands like texas instrument what is it doing colabarating with a cheap ass "startup" company like alpha????What is it amateur hour?Lets give a startup a chance and in the meanwhile fuck up our repution?
Look at jasinlee subforum, he talks and answers questions on a day to day bases. Alpha ONLY gives announcements and updates. No communication between potencial customers.
If dexell has a ready asic prototype then why not join force with a known company with history and trust
and make millions Why risk the reputation in case of a potencial fuck up, thats bad for buissness and bad pr.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 28, 2013, 11:14:52 PM
raj_kapur - You are the biggest ass licker of alpha tech on this forum my friend.What were you promised for pimpin the product ? 30% disscount minus vat  ;) Dont u get it , people are just afraid of losing money. No fun or "eximent"in that. I just wanna say that if dexcell is a proffesional company that deals with big global brands like texas instrument what is it doing colabarating with a cheap ass "startup" company like alpha????What is it amateur hour?Lets give a startup a chance and in the meanwhile fuck up our repution?
Look at jasinlee subforum, he talks and answers questions on a day to day bases. Alpha ONLY gives announcements and updates. No communication between potencial customers.
If dexell has a ready asic prototype then why not join force with a known company with history and trust
and make millions Why risk the reputation in case of a potencial fuck up, thats bad for buissness and bad pr.

yes, but which massive company would build litecoin asic? big real companies dont even do bitcoin asic, it is all start up new businesses and new thing to the technology world, it will take them some time to catch on... you are acting like this is iphone 6.. be happy your even getting this.

plus your basing jasinlee's forum to a real product~ first offs jasinlee hasnt shown his real name or any connection or affliation. He is what you say he is.. just on a forum, if alpha tech replied everyday to assholezz lyk me and you, their credibility will go low.. they answered all impoortnt questions posed here, you are not giving any slack..... are you jasinlee's friend? u know his real name, location, cmpany nme or anything? A real company would b worryin answering everyday on this...... they gve answer to your quesiton?

jasinlee will remain on forum... bigger companies grow out of it  dealin with bigger things?.. no offenses given and taken..well im sure they are comunity driven but answering daily useless Q's would be dumb, just like U. and yes i am hapi for dexcel designs, and alpha technolo just comes with the package ;).. but did nt every company strt somewhere?.. atlest they have a real office, acordin to posted pic earlier, so wheres avalon ofice? whers jasinlee officE??.. u are frgetin engineerin is nt same as businesss, you need both 2 be sucesful... i see lots of clever ppl in India , beest engineers in the world but never they innovate in the world that much.. bein good eng is nt same as businessman, bcoz u need to mke mony!

i am just waiting on a prototype VID, i hope they deliver, this wil make me happy..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on December 28, 2013, 11:34:45 PM
I think my eyes are going to bleed after reading this.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on December 28, 2013, 11:39:42 PM
ya u r right raj im waiting for a new iphone 6, meanwhile go sell your last 4 cows and get yourself i nice shinning 5mh/s viper and have a nice day. ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 29, 2013, 02:11:42 AM
What methods of payment will you accept?Q
We will accept Paypal, Bank Transfer and Bitcoins.

Paypal has apparently put a stop to buying mining hardware

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202431.0

If this is the case why is it if you put bitcoin in ebay there is loads of sellers accepting paypal to purchase.

So i am confused
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on December 29, 2013, 08:40:14 AM
ya u r right raj im waiting for a new iphone 6, meanwhile go sell your last 4 cows and get yourself i nice shinning 5mh/s viper and have a nice day. ;D
when no intelligent answers comes to the fat spoil kid brain, he start with racist comments.... sad... :-\
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on December 29, 2013, 12:48:19 PM
Okay guys, you had your fun, watch the language (issued 2 warnings) and stay on topic, this thread won't be handled differntly than the other asics threads, means if you think you can troll and curse however much you want, you are wrong.

We will ban users if they can't behave themself and trolling in one of the business threads is the fastest way to get there.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on December 29, 2013, 05:29:38 PM
I don't mind their "storefront", and the lack of a hashing demo is understandable since the chip is still in the design phase (nothing to demo yet).

However I don't think their dodging the VAT issue (including ninja-editing their 23/12 news release to remove mention of VAT after the fact) speaks well towards their business practices.

Please Alpha, do yourself a favor and address the issue instead of trying to hide it.  Your reputation will benefit if you take the high road.

Thank you for your message. No question is being avoided, we have mentioned VAT on our last message, and also on our FAQ and product page. But let me clarify according to location:

On final payment UK customers will be added VAT
On final payment EU (non-business) customers will be added VAT
On final payment EU Businesses will provide their VAT number therefore will not be charged added VAT
On final payment Non-EU customers will not be added VAT

So to be clear, the pricing when first announced for the 5MH/s and 25MH/s products was £1350 and £5450 with VAT included, and it has since been revised to £1350 and £5450 with VAT excluded.

Is that correct?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on December 29, 2013, 05:57:44 PM
That's what they did, correct.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Giga on December 29, 2013, 07:26:22 PM
I don't mind their "storefront", and the lack of a hashing demo is understandable since the chip is still in the design phase (nothing to demo yet).

However I don't think their dodging the VAT issue (including ninja-editing their 23/12 news release to remove mention of VAT after the fact) speaks well towards their business practices.

Please Alpha, do yourself a favor and address the issue instead of trying to hide it.  Your reputation will benefit if you take the high road.

Thank you for your message. No question is being avoided, we have mentioned VAT on our last message, and also on our FAQ and product page. But let me clarify according to location:

On final payment UK customers will be added VAT
On final payment EU (non-business) customers will be added VAT
On final payment EU Businesses will provide their VAT number therefore will not be charged added VAT
On final payment Non-EU customers will not be added VAT

So to be clear, the pricing when first announced for the 5MH/s and 25MH/s products was £1350 and £5450 with VAT included, and it has since been revised to £1350 and £5450 with VAT excluded.

Is that correct?

yep that is correct.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Lsmc2014 on December 29, 2013, 08:37:18 PM
I for one will not be investing any money into this joke of a development.  They come out with pricing but have yet to show a working product?  Good luck to anyone going to invest, I hope you don't get burned.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Giga on December 29, 2013, 11:39:02 PM
I urge alpha tech to invite litecoin community members to view a working product. Or to start with maybe a visit to their manufacturing partner in India to view the facility and the planned manufacturing.

If alpha agrees, members in the UK and India can volunteer here to sign up for the tests or facility visit.

This will help boost confidence in their product
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Opulentus on December 29, 2013, 11:58:05 PM
Could you clarify the VAT situation Alpha? You're no longer including VAT however your prices do not reflect this.

Still, I think this  project is looking fairly promising compared to Fibonacci and Flowertech, considering its legitimate manufacturing partner.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 30, 2013, 03:07:35 AM
I'd like to get some more info on the CEO. Hopefully he's not this guy http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-sex-attacker-mohammed-akram-2900333
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 30, 2013, 05:27:16 AM
It's sad that the crypto mining community is likely going to fund hundreds of thousands of dollars to a new company that shows 0 product demonstration.

Quote
Image of Viper 5 Mh/s device (1u)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BctQTLCCUAAk38g.png)

That is computer art. That is not a product.

Show us something hashing, show us a piece of the hardware. Anything. You sound like a great startup yet in the end you're clearly taking in huge money before any type of engineering (if at all). Designing a product based on calculations and theory. Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs. I'm interested, yet it doesn't seem to add up.

Edit:: Understand the pictures are for a mere representation.. yet we've all been waiting for something more concrete.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 30, 2013, 06:21:35 AM
that is render, you think BFL, cointerra, knc, images are also real product?? :P making enclosure is easy task.. I am however, awaiting demonstration of video..... when is that released?.. main thing alpha + dexcel claim to have designed is the chip.. i want to see CHIP VIDEO prototype please
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 30, 2013, 07:04:03 AM
that is render, you think BFL, cointerra, knc, images are also real product?? :P making enclosure is easy task.. I am however, awaiting demonstration of video..... when is that released?.. main thing alpha + dexcel claim to have designed is the chip.. i want to see CHIP VIDEO prototype please

You're missing the point Raj kapur. We are all waiting for a demonstration video, chip pictures, etc. That was the basis of my post.

I just feel Alpha might still have a lot of engineering left to do. With everyone elses money. That my friend is scary.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 30, 2013, 07:07:03 AM
Nice looking design,curious why would it need those up/down - left/right buttons, its not like its going to play dvd movies :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 30, 2013, 08:23:00 AM
It's sad that the crypto mining community is likely going to fund hundreds of thousands of dollars to a new company that shows 0 product demonstration.

Quote
Image of Viper 5 Mh/s device (1u)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BctQTLCCUAAk38g.png)

That is computer art. That is not a product.

Show us something hashing, show us a piece of the hardware. Anything. You sound like a great startup yet in the end you're clearly taking in huge money before any type of engineering (if at all). Designing a product based on calculations and theory. Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs. I'm interested, yet it doesn't seem to add up.

Edit:: Understand the pictures are for a mere representation.. yet we've all been waiting for something more concrete.

Shipping is in Q2 2014. The main innovation is our ASIC chip design, which we will show a video demonstration in 1-2 days.

This is on there twiter
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 30, 2013, 10:18:03 AM
Alpha we need to see the video before any pre-release orders can be made, you need to make sure that it is a very clear video demonstration and which shows the hashrates that can be confirmed, we also need to see all the connections and leads to the unit so that we know that it's not being hooked upto anything else. It really needs to be picked up while it's running so the camera can see all around it, and we can see all of the leads that are connected and their sockets on both ends, and we can see the hashrates on a monitor so we know 100% unequivocally that it's working on it's own. It is important that this all needs to be in one shot together and not edited together to start with then close up shots can be done later. I'd also like to be credited for directing this film!  :P

Just to add could you also answer my previous post questions when you read this as well thanks!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on December 30, 2013, 05:29:08 PM
Alpha we need to see the video before any pre-release orders can be made, you need to make sure that it is a very clear video demonstration and which shows the hashrates that can be confirmed, we also need to see all the connections and leads to the unit so that we know that it's not being hooked upto anything else. It really needs to be picked up while it's running so the camera can see all around it, and we can see all of the leads that are connected and their sockets on both ends, and we can see the hashrates on a monitor so we know 100% unequivocally that it's working on it's own. It is important that this all needs to be in one shot together and not edited together to start with then close up shots can be done later. I'd also like to be credited for directing this film!  :P

Just to add could you also answer my previous post questions when you read this as well thanks!

Thank you for your concerns. We promised a video demonstration before opening pre orders, and you will not be disappointed.


VAT Clarification

Firstly, we apologise for any inconvenience caused by our previous VAT pricing (prices should have written excl. VAT).

Initially there was confusion as to whether we would dispatch the product from UK to EU customers. However, in order to speed up the time in which customers get their product we have arranged for the items to get shipped directly from India to our European customers.

As a result of this no UK VAT will be charged to EU customers, however they may be responsible for paying local import duty and taxes.

Summary:

UK Customers pay added VAT (on final payment).

Non-UK customers will not pay any added VAT but may be responsible for paying local import duty and taxes.

We are glad we cleared the air regarding pricing and VAT.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 30, 2013, 05:47:03 PM
well, hopefully the video is a bit better than the prototype picture. Nobody cares about a futuristic prototype picture that doesn't exist(i.e. vaporware). Are you still able to pay with credit card? I see in the news release says bitcoins and bank wire. However, the FAQ says PayPal, bitcoins and bank wire.. Unless a misread it and cannot double check as website is down.

Website is offline The server may be down for maintenance, there may be a network problem, or the site may be experiencing excessive load.
Error 520 Ray ID: e50891ec384084a
Web server is returning an unknown error
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on December 30, 2013, 06:01:06 PM
Cool.
Now it's not only : "pay some more",
but: "pay some more and have fun with your local customs (wait to get noticed, waste time+money(VAT) there and hope they will categorize it correctly (otherwise: pay additional fees/taxes))".

Guess I'm out of this.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Giga on December 30, 2013, 06:14:47 PM
Nice looking design,curious why would it need those up/down - left/right buttons, its not like its going to play dvd movies :)

its for the lcd panel control, they have those on some rack servers too.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 30, 2013, 06:39:22 PM
VAT Clarification

Firstly, we apologise for any inconvenience caused by our previous VAT pricing (prices should have written excl. VAT).

Initially there was confusion as to whether we would dispatch the product from UK to EU customers. However, in order to speed up the time in which customers get their product we have arranged for the items to get shipped directly from India to our European customers.

As a result of this no UK VAT will be charged to EU customers, however they may be responsible for paying local import duty and taxes.

Summary:

UK Customers pay added VAT (on final payment).

Non-UK customers will not pay any added VAT but may be responsible for paying local import duty and taxes.

We are glad we cleared the air regarding pricing and VAT.

Email update. The website is down as well..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 30, 2013, 07:07:34 PM
Alpha we need to see the video before any pre-release orders can be made, you need to make sure that it is a very clear video demonstration and which shows the hashrates that can be confirmed, we also need to see all the connections and leads to the unit so that we know that it's not being hooked upto anything else. It really needs to be picked up while it's running so the camera can see all around it, and we can see all of the leads that are connected and their sockets on both ends, and we can see the hashrates on a monitor so we know 100% unequivocally that it's working on it's own. It is important that this all needs to be in one shot together and not edited together to start with then close up shots can be done later. I'd also like to be credited for directing this film!  :P

Just to add could you also answer my previous post questions when you read this as well thanks!

Thank you for your concerns. We promised a video demonstration before opening pre orders, and you will not be disappointed.


VAT Clarification

Firstly, we apologise for any inconvenience caused by our previous VAT pricing (prices should have written excl. VAT).

Initially there was confusion as to whether we would dispatch the product from UK to EU customers. However, in order to speed up the time in which customers get their product we have arranged for the items to get shipped directly from India to our European customers.

As a result of this no UK VAT will be charged to EU customers, however they may be responsible for paying local import duty and taxes.

Summary:

UK Customers pay added VAT (on final payment).

Non-UK customers will not pay any added VAT but may be responsible for paying local import duty and taxes.

We are glad we cleared the air regarding pricing and VAT.

Bottom line is that everyone still gets screwed by your price increase. UK customers have to pay additional 20% from your initial price and other EU & non-EU/UK customers have to pay more than initially expected as the price you first posted on the site and in the email announcement had VAT included! If you did not decide on the price before you announced it what other surprises can we expect?

Well I can for see at least one major “surprise”: PayPal will not be accepted! Even if you start accepting pre-orders with PayPal soon after your PayPal account will be put on hold and your PayPal balance will be frozen as PayPal is cracking down on pre-orders of mining hardware since TerraHash went bust and left PayPal with a huge bill. You will notice that since TerraHash went under all other BTC ASIC manufacturers have taken off PayPal from their accepted payment method.

You have announced (via Twitter in response to questions on your recently posted mockup pic.) that shipment will be in Q2. If you do not show us an actually working, non-FPGA board (other have shown working FPGA ex. ltcgear.com and are using them to mine LTC so nothing new there at all), prototype then most likely that will not happen as there are still a lot of things that can go wrong with the development (yes development and not production) of the unit! We all remember the issues BFL had and yes your partners seem more credible than BFL but still a lot of things can go wrong during development & testing.

I’m sure majority do not care much about the details of the ASIC chip (although the engineer side of me appreciates some insight in to the chip design), but instead want to know more details on the rest of the unit. For example will the unit support 120/220V @ 50/60Hz and what will be the operating temperature for these units so that we know whether we can even run them at home or if they were only meant for data center with 220V supply and AC blowing at it? On your mockup picture you do not have any venting holes so does that mean no ventilation will be necessary even at >40C? I would very much appreciate you starting to answer these technical questions as ignoring them creates more doubt.

Finally, come clean and honor your original pricing as the way you came out so far does not look good at all and don't try to say that no one reviewed the prices for accuracy before they were posted as that would just be putting more doubt in to your ability to deliver anything!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 30, 2013, 07:25:01 PM
if you take credit card or PayPal out of the picture. There is a lot of risk. As other payment methods are irreversible. I'm sure TerraHash and BFL were the main reasons for PayPal to block the purchase of mining equipment.
Regards
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Behemot on December 30, 2013, 07:38:33 PM
Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs.

You are talking rubbish. I can have equal of 15 MH in graphics for the price of the 25 MH miner right away and mine fortune on that, so what the hell is cheap on such HW which will produce less than double the hashrate not sooner than in half a year, when difficulty wil be at least double it is today if LTC price will continue to rise? IMO it should be even cheaper. And all those FPGA miners are laughable, like 3 MH for 5000 USD? I can have twice that hashrate for that price including equipment to power and cool it down (air conditioners etc.). Not mentioning the cards will still have quite some value, unlike FPGAs and ASICs.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 30, 2013, 08:01:57 PM
Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs.

You are talking rubbish. I can have equal of 15 MH in graphics for the price of the 25 MH blah blah blah

You said it yourself. You do realize your "equal" value is only 60% of the 25MH..

And the release date/difficulty does not correlate with the price of the actual equipment. Only the ROI.  Compare to fibonacci, research the production, parts, etc. GPUs are already highly efficient at scrypt. An ASIC designed for this would mostly reduce heat/power/etc at a similar price point. So Alpha claiming to sell a machine at such a low price point per hash is quite interesting...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 30, 2013, 08:08:13 PM
if you take credit card or PayPal out of the picture. There is a lot of risk. As other payment methods are irreversible. I'm sure TerraHash and BFL were the main reasons for PayPal to block the purchase of mining equipment.
Regards

Certainy need to be able to pay by credit card at the least otherwise the risk is too high. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 30, 2013, 08:10:20 PM
Alpha thanks for your response about the video and VAT even though I think it's very very poor practice what you have done. However there are still a few questions you have missed which I really need answers for.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say

    If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.

I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

2. Will you be able to give some units to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
3. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
4. What do you feel is the reason for the price difference between what you are selling and Jasinlees product? There is quite an alarming price difference and I thnk it would be helpful for the community to hear your opinion on this?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time to answer these remaining questions.



Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 30, 2013, 08:35:49 PM
Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs.

You are talking rubbish. I can have equal of 15 MH in graphics for the price of the 25 MH blah blah blah

You said it yourself. You do realize your "equal" value is only 60% of the 25MH..

And the release date/difficulty does not correlate with the price of the actual equipment. Only the ROI.  Compare to fibonacci, research the production, parts, etc. GPUs are already highly efficient at scrypt. An ASIC designed for this would mostly reduce heat/power/etc at a similar price point. So Alpha claiming to sell a machine at such a low price point per hash is quite interesting...

Yes ASIC for script is very interesting, but I tend to agree with Behemot who seams to be closer to earth and realizes the fact that difficulty will raise over time (as the existing difficulty history can confirm) and that every ASICs will eventually become a paperweight. Keep in mind that Alpha is the first, but I'm sure no the only one who will eventually develop script ASIC and don't fool yourself in to thinking that they will be the only ones as I can guarantee once others see no more big money in BTC ASIC they will jump in to this market. Don't let this be another BFL experience so demand that Alpha answers all your questions and hold them to their promises!

Note that Alpha is a Private Limited Company so unless they put a lot of their money in to purchasing their own product they are only going to loose ~£1 in their stock and any registration/liquidation fees if things go south and all losses will be on us. Typically when you setup any merchandise prices you multiple your costs by 3 (as the simplest rule) to make profit so I can bet you that they are using only our money to fund the development at no risk to them self even with 30% down payment. Bottom line is just because they are registered company does not mean anything in itself unless they show a clearly working ASIC prototype!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on December 30, 2013, 09:02:13 PM
Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs.

You are talking rubbish. I can have equal of 15 MH in graphics for the price of the 25 MH blah blah blah

You said it yourself. You do realize your "equal" value is only 60% of the 25MH..

And the release date/difficulty does not correlate with the price of the actual equipment. Only the ROI.  Compare to fibonacci, research the production, parts, etc. GPUs are already highly efficient at scrypt. An ASIC designed for this would mostly reduce heat/power/etc at a similar price point. So Alpha claiming to sell a machine at such a low price point per hash is quite interesting...

Yes ASIC for script is very interesting, but I tend to agree with Behemot who seams to be closer to earth and realizes the fact that difficulty will raise over time (as the existing difficulty history can confirm) and that every ASICs will eventually become a paperweight. Keep in mind that Alpha is the first, but I'm sure no the only one who will eventually develop script ASIC and don't fool yourself in to thinking that they will be the only ones as I can guarantee once others see no more big money in BTC ASIC they will jump in to this market. Don't let this be another BFL experience so demand that Alpha answers all your questions and hold them to their promises!

Note that Alpha is a Private Limited Company so unless they put a lot of their money in to purchasing their own product they are only going to loose ~£1 in their stock and any registration/liquidation fees if things go south and all losses will be on us. Typically when you setup any merchandise prices you multiple your costs by 3 (as the simplest rule) to make profit so I can bet you that they are using only our money to fund the development at no risk to them self even with 30% down payment. Bottom line is just because they are registered company does not mean anything in itself unless they show a clearly working ASIC prototype!

i agree with this in regarding an asic demonstration or something.

Alpha thanks for your response about the video and VAT even though I think it's very very poor practice what you have done. However there are still a few questions you have missed which I really need answers for.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say

    If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.

I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

2. Will you be able to give some units to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
3. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
4. What do you feel is the reason for the price difference between what you are selling and Jasinlees product? There is quite an alarming price difference and I thnk it would be helpful for the community to hear your opinion on this?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time to answer these remaining questions.





catface, maybe you are confused or cannot read properli, i just went on order term and was also confused within yourq uestioning. before quoting somethin you should quote tHE FULL PARAGRAPH


you are notp being charge twice with bitcoin i copy and paste:

Bitcoin: You will be redirected to the BitPay processing site. There you will have a 15 minute session to pay via Bitcoins. Upon success your order status will change to ‘Processing’ and you will receive an email confirmation. If at any point your session expires or page cancels, your order will remain On Hold, in this case just create a new order.

Can you not read.. it says if your session expires or cancels, then your order will go ON HOLD.... if you make payment it goes on processing..  ONLY ON HOLD IF PAYMENT IS NOT MADE. DUH
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on December 30, 2013, 09:20:54 PM
Further the price points are extremely low for the product and specs.

I have ordered a few times through bit pay. If your new, it can be a little bit confusing. No need to be a jerk about it.

You are talking rubbish. I can have equal of 15 MH in graphics for the price of the 25 MH blah blah blah

You said it yourself. You do realize your "equal" value is only 60% of the 25MH..

And the release date/difficulty does not correlate with the price of the actual equipment. Only the ROI.  Compare to fibonacci, research the production, parts, etc. GPUs are already highly efficient at scrypt. An ASIC designed for this would mostly reduce heat/power/etc at a similar price point. So Alpha claiming to sell a machine at such a low price point per hash is quite interesting...

Yes ASIC for script is very interesting, but I tend to agree with Behemot who seams to be closer to earth and realizes the fact that difficulty will raise over time (as the existing difficulty history can confirm) and that every ASICs will eventually become a paperweight. Keep in mind that Alpha is the first, but I'm sure no the only one who will eventually develop script ASIC and don't fool yourself in to thinking that they will be the only ones as I can guarantee once others see no more big money in BTC ASIC they will jump in to this market. Don't let this be another BFL experience so demand that Alpha answers all your questions and hold them to their promises!

Note that Alpha is a Private Limited Company so unless they put a lot of their money in to purchasing their own product they are only going to loose ~£1 in their stock and any registration/liquidation fees if things go south and all losses will be on us. Typically when you setup any merchandise prices you multiple your costs by 3 (as the simplest rule) to make profit so I can bet you that they are using only our money to fund the development at no risk to them self even with 30% down payment. Bottom line is just because they are registered company does not mean anything in itself unless they show a clearly working ASIC prototype!

i agree with this in regarding an asic demonstration or something.

Alpha thanks for your response about the video and VAT even though I think it's very very poor practice what you have done. However there are still a few questions you have missed which I really need answers for.

1.Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say

    If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.

I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved so I'd just like a bit more clarity on this if you could thanks?

2. Will you be able to give some units to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
3. Also did you look into the warranty time for EU countries?
4. What do you feel is the reason for the price difference between what you are selling and Jasinlees product? There is quite an alarming price difference and I thnk it would be helpful for the community to hear your opinion on this?

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time to answer these remaining questions.





catface, maybe you are confused or cannot read properli, i just went on order term and was also confused within yourq uestioning. before quoting somethin you should quote tHE FULL PARAGRAPH


you are notp being charge twice with bitcoin i copy and paste:

Bitcoin: You will be redirected to the BitPay processing site. There you will have a 15 minute session to pay via Bitcoins. Upon success your order status will change to ‘Processing’ and you will receive an email confirmation. If at any point your session expires or page cancels, your order will remain On Hold, in this case just create a new order.

Can you not read.. it says if your session expires or cancels, then your order will go ON HOLD.... if you make payment it goes on processing..  ONLY ON HOLD IF PAYMENT IS NOT MADE. DUH
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on December 30, 2013, 10:02:05 PM
well seriously, with all the money AMD did last month (they know why they have been out of stock) and with dor the 1st time since years a big advanage over nvidia, you can espect somting gr8 for the year to come! I think FGPAs companys will be surprise. when BTC miners apeared the where 10-25 x more eficient than GPUS here its about 1.2-1.5 in the best case...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 30, 2013, 10:25:33 PM
well seriously, with all the money AMD did last month (they know why they have been out of stock) and with dor the 1st time since years a big advanage over nvidia, you can espect somting gr8 for the year to come! I think FGPAs companys will be surprise. when BTC miners apeared the where 10-25 x more eficient than GPUS here its about 1.2-1.5 in the best case...

Agree, and do not exclude NVIDIA as with their new 800 series Maxwell chip scheduled for Q1 of next year (http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/48394-maxwell-arriving-in-q1-2014/ (http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/48394-maxwell-arriving-in-q1-2014/)) they may be coming back in to relevance in script hashing as per rumors their GPU will be complemented with an ARM chip and also be able to access system RAM (AMD is working on similar tech.) so I'm very exited to see both in action early next year.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: CGMChick on December 30, 2013, 10:56:27 PM
Keep raising your concerns about alpha launch and their general conduct.

The more requests people make the harder it becomes for officials to ignore any dodgy trading if things go wrong. Someone should fear criminal charges or being banned from holding a directors position if they fold after taking peoples money and not delivering orders. 

I hope they do deliver on their promises. I could do with lower fuel bills and spending less time worrying about circuit breakers.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: LCD on December 31, 2013, 01:42:19 AM
There is one big problem: I tried to order a asic miner some time ago (BFL, yes, I know now that I'm a idiot), and if there is no "CE" certificate or wrong power cord, the customs will not hand over the machine but either send it back or destroy it, at least this is 100% sure for Germany and Austria. Shipping from UK is no problem (I think) because UK is part of EU, but reciving it from USA, China or India is a real problem. Will it have th "CE" certificate, dear Alpha team?
I registred myself on Alphas website since it was possible wanted to order a 5 MH/s machine for me (I'm not rich and lost already lot of savings with BFL) and a 25 MH/s machine for my brother. Then I noticed the VAT change, and now shipping from India which is highly problematic here. This sounds worse from day to day. If the customs will not hand over the machine, we loose all the money.
And about the long awaited video: I'm not the best coder, but I can fake a console window showing excellent hashing rate, so there should be independend witness, someone believeable like a forum mod, to which account the litecoins will be mined and who proove that this is real.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 31, 2013, 02:44:28 AM
........

They have not released any images of anything yet.. let alone can tell you if their "product" is CE rated. They still have to do loads of engineering/production, all based on theory.

They still have yet to tell the masses whether they are actually past the engineering stage. We are funding/gambling in a company with hopes they produce a product. Engineering and production is a huuuge piece of the puzzle and almost always never goes as planned. That being said there is nothing exactly wrong with their current business model, yet people really need to understand where their money is going. Many feel they are purchasing an actual product similar to something on backorder...

I could be proven wrong by a nicely thought out video. I hope that happens as I will be the first to order, yet I doubt it...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 31, 2013, 03:36:46 AM
There is one big problem: I tried to order a asic miner some time ago (BFL, yes, I know now that I'm a idiot), and if there is no "CE" certificate or wrong power cord, the customs will not hand over the machine but either send it back or destroy it, at least this is 100% sure for Germany and Austria. Shipping from UK is no problem (I think) because UK is part of EU, but reciving it from USA, China or India is a real problem. Will it have th "CE" certificate, dear Alpha team?
I registred myself on Alphas website since it was possible wanted to order a 5 MH/s machine for me (I'm not rich and lost already lot of savings with BFL) and a 25 MH/s machine for my brother. Then I noticed the VAT change, and now shipping from India which is highly problematic here. This sounds worse from day to day. If the customs will not hand over the machine, we loose all the money.
And about the long awaited video: I'm not the best coder, but I can fake a console window showing excellent hashing rate, so there should be independend witness, someone believeable like a forum mod, to which account the litecoins will be mined and who proove that this is real.

Exactly, there are still many outstanding and very important questions like this which Alpha keeps ignoring and waists our time with a computer generated image of what the unit could look like. Seriously who cares whether the unit has an LCD display and how the case looks like when most of the time it will be sitting out of sight and you will be using the web GUI to configure it? Alpha stop wasting our time and start answering our questions!!!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 31, 2013, 04:01:28 AM
catface, maybe you are confused or cannot read properli, i just went on order term and was also confused within yourq uestioning. before quoting somethin you should quote tHE FULL PARAGRAPH


you are notp being charge twice with bitcoin i copy and paste:

Bitcoin: You will be redirected to the BitPay processing site. There you will have a 15 minute session to pay via Bitcoins. Upon success your order status will change to ‘Processing’ and you will receive an email confirmation. If at any point your session expires or page cancels, your order will remain On Hold, in this case just create a new order.

Can you not read.. it says if your session expires or cancels, then your order will go ON HOLD.... if you make payment it goes on processing..  ONLY ON HOLD IF PAYMENT IS NOT MADE. DUH

If you refer to my original post on 26th December

Quote
Also the part on your website that sais this
Quote

    ‘On Hold’ orders when paying via Bank Transfer are awaiting confirmation, you will receive an email once your transfer has been confirmed and your status will change to ‘Processing’. Note. our bank account information has been emailed to you. If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.

Could you make this a bit clearer, the part where you say
Quote

    If you are paying with Bitcoins and your status is On Hold, please ignore this and create a new order.

. I'd feel uncomfortable creating a new order incase I was charged twice especially for the money involved.

As you can see I have fully quoted it here and have since shortened the quote in further posts as they will have known the section I meant (especially as I've kept asking). You will notice that they have since updated that statement since last time I posted and explained in more detail the part about Bitcoin payment which was originally short and vague. Great success! Asking questions like this helps the community as a whole as Alpha have reviewed the Bitcoin statement and now made it clear for everyone to understand. Alpha created this forum topic and it would be great if they could spare just a little bit more time to communicate these kind of things on their forum topic. That's a big part of what it's here for surely, the customer! But seriously that's the least of my worries but I thank them for amending it. Now...if you could answer the last few questions Alpha especially number 2 about getting trusted members to test the units that would be great!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on December 31, 2013, 07:50:15 AM
Just don't get BFL'd here, folks.
Paypal wont give you your money back, if the payment was done half a year ago. (If you're not very lucky)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 31, 2013, 10:17:32 AM
What gives you the idea they will act like BFL, they have been very professional so far and promised everything said on twiter, we just need this video and were set
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kirigaya on December 31, 2013, 11:07:07 AM
There is one big problem: I tried to order a asic miner some time ago (BFL, yes, I know now that I'm a idiot), and if there is no "CE" certificate or wrong power cord, the customs will not hand over the machine but either send it back or destroy it, at least this is 100% sure for Germany and Austria. Shipping from UK is no problem (I think) because UK is part of EU, but reciving it from USA, China or India is a real problem. Will it have th "CE" certificate, dear Alpha team?

I hope they will answer this bevore they take pre orders.
If not this is too risky for me. Dont want to hear from my customs sorry your 7k € (or more. I am not sure with Taxes) are gone because of a simple mark.

Have you ask them in an email LCD. It would be nice if you tell us their answers.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on December 31, 2013, 12:46:59 PM
What guys you the idea they will act like BFL, they have been very professional so far and promised everything said on twiter, we just need this video and were set

Undeniably atmosphere in this thread is becoming increasingly hostile. Nevertheless I have a question which concerns me a lot and actually it has already been asked here a couple of times, but has not been answered.

Why there is a huge price difference (almost two-three times per khs) between the Alpha technology products and the competing products such as Fibonacci?

I do agree that LCD display is not really needed, but adds more cost to the product, especially, considering that it could be replace with a few led indicators.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: LCD on December 31, 2013, 12:53:44 PM
Have you ask them in an email LCD. It would be nice if you tell us their answers.
IF they answer. They did not answered my first mail some days ago.

@voodook: As for the per hash price difference, I just think, Fibonacci want to maximize their profit, so I do not question Alpha's targeted price.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on December 31, 2013, 02:57:43 PM
Have you ask them in an email LCD. It would be nice if you tell us their answers.
IF they answer. They did not answered my first mail some days ago.

@voodook: As for the per hash price difference, I just think, Fibonacci want to maximize their profit, so I do not question Alpha's targeted price.

Of course that is indeed one of the reasons. On the other hand it is strange that Alpha adds, things to their products which do not bring any value to customers.  These are, for  example, an LCD or having non-optimal core/memory (just quoting kramble as i don't understand anything about the matter) trade-off (whose associated costs they want to absorb) and sell the product at low (but very appealing) price. Pricewise Alpha is above any competition. Do they want to gain as large market share as possible? Somehow I feel that  at the current price, production quantities will be the market-share-limiting factor here, not the price. (To me having an LCD is not an issue)

I think, so far, Alpha has fullfilled all their promises and I don't understand why people are so negative towards them. I'm eagerly waiting for the promised demonstartion.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on December 31, 2013, 06:16:36 PM
Quote
I think, so far, Alpha has fullfilled all their promises and I don't understand why people are so negative towards them. I'm eagerly waiting for the promised demonstartion.

It's not so much negative, it's just that certain things don't seem to add up (undervalued price, design specs, if they are past engineering stage), and instead of addressing them, they just continue to release more vaporware. We'd really just like to see some hard data/video/pics at this point.

On to today's gripe, both the news links they posted this morning sound like complete ads...

"Didn't become a bitcoin millionaire? You can now do it with this litecoin asic!" Both are very similar, no so much reporting.

Other than that, excitedly waiting on the video  :P
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on December 31, 2013, 06:24:53 PM
They are not answering some important customer questions what's worse they are not acknowleding or giving a reason as to why they don't respond. If they are intensly busy then a polite note to members to explain this would go a long way to aid in members confidence. It's terrible customer service as I feel like I'm being ignored and you begin to doubt their integrity as they won't answer particular questions. It is very very important that we keep asking questions and trying to get answers as theirs too much money at stake not to.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kirigaya on December 31, 2013, 08:07:07 PM
Have you ask them in an email LCD. It would be nice if you tell us their answers.
IF they answer. They did not answered my first mail some days ago.


I got an answer

Hello *******,

This is no issue,  just by using CE certified power supplies this certification can be passed easily.

We will cover all areas in regards to customs.

Regards

.........

So it seems that there is no problem.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: LCD on December 31, 2013, 08:26:43 PM
These are, for  example, an LCD or having non-optimal core/memory
LC-Displays are not that expensive at last in comparsion to custom hashing ASIC chips, and may display valuable informations.
The updatable firmware may use the memory more optimal later.

@Kirigaya:
BFL also used certified PSU, but the customs held it back, because they have not included the CE sign. And now: the homepage says it's including power cord.
WTF? Does this mean UK-Power cord or depending on from where it was ordered-power cord?
UK-Power cord are useless in other european countries, and I think even UK-customers have already tons of power cords at home. And such a power cord is one of the reasons for customs to hold the miner back, as they did with my small BFL 5 GH device.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 31, 2013, 09:10:44 PM
Alpha posted more PR articles today via Twitter, but has no time to address our important question. I would not be surprised if they decide to attend CES 2014. Hmm, this trend appears familiar...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on December 31, 2013, 09:52:23 PM
Did they say how many 5MH and 25MH Units are available in batch 1?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 31, 2013, 10:24:47 PM
Did they say how many 5MH and 25MH Units are available in batch 1?

They never mentioned a specific number and only used a "limited number", but this is a very good question which I would like to see answered as well. They have to have some number of devices or at least number of chips in mind for batch 1 to know how many pre-orders they can accept don't they?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on December 31, 2013, 10:36:19 PM
Have you ask them in an email LCD. It would be nice if you tell us their answers.
IF they answer. They did not answered my first mail some days ago.


I got an answer

Hello *******,

This is no issue,  just by using CE certified power supplies this certification can be passed easily.

We will cover all areas in regards to customs.

Regards

.........

So it seems that there is no problem.

That's great news, but can you share with us which email address you used. The [email protected] appears to be a black hole as I have not seen any responses coming back from there and if they cannot respond to emails why not respond here so all can get their answers at the same time and help to limit the growing doubts?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kirigaya on December 31, 2013, 11:04:39 PM
Yes as you say the E-Mail [email protected] is a black whole.
I have not get any answer on my question about Paypal. So i try the Email [email protected] .
I got the answer to my e-mail within 4 hours.
So this mail seems working I dont know why the other mail is a black whole.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on January 01, 2014, 12:39:26 AM
I think some of the ill will stems from the pricing mis-step regarding VAT where it was at first said to be included in the quoted price, and later revised to say excluded.

As for their pricing vs the competition, scrypt ASICs are a virgin market where entrants have quite a lot of freedom with regard to pricing.  To compare Viper to the Fibonacci product, there may be significant design differences that affect the price/performance ratio.  Specifically I think Fibonacci is an "FPGA Hard Copy" or sASIC, where Viper may be a Standard Cell or Full Custom ASIC.

I ran some numbers, and noticed that if delivery were to occur today for both products, if one were to invest the same amount in Alpha 25MH/s Viper products, and in Bitmain SHA256 AntMiner S1s, and the daily earnings would be rougly the same in USD terms (using today's market values and difficulties).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kirigaya on January 01, 2014, 03:20:17 PM
Yes but the Bitcoin difficulty will rise much faster then the Litecoin difficulty (or any other alt Currency)


I hope this will not be true someday. It would make any investment pointless for LTC but for all other Scrypt based coins it would be perfect. IMO this would be very bad for LTC.


https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=11864.15
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Behemot on January 02, 2014, 03:42:45 AM
You said it yourself. You do realize your "equal" value is only 60% of the 25MH..
Sure it is and as I already told you, I can have it NOW and make money right away on that. Graphics also have same use even if all this litecoin ends by tomorrow. ASIC is useles than. I want ASIC to have hashing power, couldn't care less about some consumption BS, that's for idiots who try to mine while paying electricity.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: nuts on January 02, 2014, 11:45:20 AM
I would be VERY wary of this companies refund policy.

either they are trying to crowdfund the development (in which case, why not do it on a proper platform?), or its a grab it and run policy.

either way, DYOR
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: pastet89 on January 02, 2014, 02:35:49 PM
Will you be able to give some units to a few trusted members to test out before selling?
+1

It would be nice to answer at least that question, and if you refuse to provide units for testing or leave this questions unaswered as well, it it will become even more suspective how reliable you are.

On the flip side, if you provide testing to few trusted memebers and they confirm the machines are valid, I can say for myself (and am quite sure that a mass of people will follow me), that would be really interested to invest in your product.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bishop311 on January 02, 2014, 03:07:56 PM
From https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/

Quote
Deposit

30% advance payment to be paid along with booking and registration. Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date. The exact shipment date shall be notified on our website.

Cancellation & Refund Policy

Within 0-1 month after receipt of payment: Full deposit will be refunded.

Within 1-3 months after receipt of payment: 75% of the deposit will be refunded.

Within 3-5 months after receipt of payment: 50% of the deposit will be refunded.

Please note a cancellation fee of £70 towards handling charges will be applicable along with any cancellation.
[/b]

What a massive load of s#*t!  This is absolutely a scam and anyone who allows themselves to be parted with their money deserves exactly what is coming their way.  Beware the second coming of BFL!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bossman on January 02, 2014, 03:14:18 PM
the BFL for Litecoin , I called it
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on January 02, 2014, 05:06:39 PM
I would be VERY wary of this companies refund policy.

either they are trying to crowdfund the development (in which case, why not do it on a proper platform?), or its a grab it and run policy.

either way, DYOR

+1

obv. Im not saying they have bad attetion but what im saying they are probablly in a financial hole. Btw i wonder how much reaserch costs?
Maybe Dexcell does the reserch and Alpha finances the production line. In that case good luck with that. Any one how had contact with reserving a production line knows it takes alot of money. Classic case of a start-up with no capital.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 02, 2014, 05:19:14 PM
Btw i wonder how much reaserch costs?

ASIC NRE starts at around $100k (for an ancient 120nm process node). For the sort of process Alpha are targeting its probably in the low millions range (you could try asking but its usually very commercially-in-confidence). I'm rather tickled by all the requests for video demonstrations. Until the development is done (and all the money spent), they will have nothing to show but a FPGA prototype, and anyone can make a video of that (eg sluicebit), it proves nothing.

ASIC is an all-or nothing product. Until the chips come out of the foundry there is nothing to show.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on January 02, 2014, 05:56:09 PM
best case scenerio, Dexcell has the prototype, get fed with Alpha , and finds another partner to take care of the production/distribiution part. Lets  be honest if the technology exist , that means somebody at Dexcell put in a lot of hours in develement+equipment use etc, someone has too pay up.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: pastet89 on January 02, 2014, 06:50:32 PM
Alpha looks like a scam. Dexcell looks quite solid.
This is the only reason me to belive there is possibility the whole product is not a scam. I even called Dexcell and they confirmed they are working on this project with Alpha.
However I still need answer of my question on this thread directly by Alpha:
Are you ready to give some units for testing to trusted members, and if no, why?
Also I have 2 other questons:
Why don't you just forget about pre-orders as you see people are looking suspectively on this based on their previous experience with BTC miners?
If you say that you have decieded to ship from India, only in order to promote faster shpping, what if I say that I am ready to get a bit slower delivery but to get shipped from the UK, as in this case my package will even not be hold on customs and I will not pay around 30% more in VAT and other fees?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 02, 2014, 07:15:05 PM
It seems some people still don't understand the ASIC development cycle. It goes something like this...

1. Pay some engineers to do the design. This takes several months.
2. Pay the mask manufacturer to create the production masks. This is the most expensive part and takes several weeks.
3. Pay the foundry to manufacture a batch of (a minimum of several thousand) chips. This again takes several months.
4. Assemble the chips onto boards and ship to your customers. This is perhaps the cheapest part.
5. Repeat from step 3 if you still have customers to service.

Alpha are perhaps at stage 1 in this process. They have nothing to show yet (other than a FPGA prototype which is just eye candy, it has no meaningful place in the development process). Lots of money will be spent getting to stage 3, and you better hope they don't make any mistakes as a rework is extremely expensive (almost as much money again). Most of the expense is up-front development and tooling (mask) costs. The unit cost of the chips themselves is a small proportion (think of it this way, the first chip costs a million dollars, the second one and all the rest perhaps just one dollar each).

Now consider how you go about funding this process.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: dctech on January 02, 2014, 07:56:16 PM
It seems some people still don't understand the ASIC development cycle. It goes something like this...

1. Pay some engineers to do the design. This takes several months.
2. Pay the mask manufacturer to create the production masks. This is the most expensive part and takes several weeks.
3. Pay the foundry to manufacture a batch of (a minimum of several thousand) chips. This again takes several months.
4. Assemble the chips onto boards and ship to your customers. This is perhaps the cheapest part.
5. Repeat from step 3 if you still have customers to service.

Alpha are perhaps at stage 1 in this process. They have nothing to show yet (other than a FPGA prototype which is just eye candy, it has no meaningful place in the development process). Lots of money will be spent getting to stage 3, and you better hope they don't make any mistakes as a rework is extremely expensive (almost as much money again). Most of the expense is up-front development and tooling (mask) costs. The unit cost of the chips themselves is a small proportion (think of it this way, the first chip costs a million dollars, the second one and all the rest perhaps just one dollar each).

Now consider how you go about funding this process.

I understand the whole process and this is why some of the first BTC ASIC companies failed as they had issues during development. Alpha should be more transparent to build confidence! They can do that by simply answering the community questions and not just silently updating their site with fraction of the answers to our important questions. If they do not start to answer the community concerns then they will loose a lot of customers, their pre-orders will be low, and the money of those who were willing to risk it will be lost as Alpha will not have enough capital to go through the development process. Even if they intentionally ignore the LTC community (which would be mad on their side) I'm sure new people interested in LTC/script mining would try to research them before they commit to pre-order and will definitely come across this forum.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Skaterdiejosh on January 02, 2014, 10:09:37 PM
New nember here and was searching for more info on these litecoin miners. I sent them a email last week asking about when they are going to start the Pre-order process. Im not even sure if I would trust them with my money yet but we will see if they can show more credibility :)

Email response below ...

Thank you for your message. In fact we have not yet launched, we have one main announcement to make then a few days later we will open our order books.

If you follow our twitter/newsletter, you will be notified instantly when our units are available for order.

Alpha Technology Team

So I guess we will wait to see what this " Big Update is "
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 02, 2014, 11:45:14 PM
Btw i wonder how much reaserch costs?

ASIC NRE starts at around $100k (for an ancient 120nm process node). For the sort of process Alpha are targeting its probably in the low millions range (you could try asking but its usually very commercially-in-confidence). I'm rather tickled by all the requests for video demonstrations. Until the development is done (and all the money spent), they will have nothing to show but a FPGA prototype, and anyone can make a video of that (eg sluicebit), it proves nothing.

ASIC is an all-or nothing product. Until the chips come out of the foundry there is nothing to show.

im guessing alpha + dex will keep research and dev costs close to there chest to avoid any copying..... i wish companies would be more open about cost and what foundries tell them...

Btw i wonder how much reaserch costs?

ASIC NRE starts at around $100k (for an ancient 120nm process node). For the sort of process Alpha are targeting its probably in the low millions range (you could try asking but its usually very commercially-in-confidence). I'm rather tickled by all the requests for video demonstrations. Until the development is done (and all the money spent), they will have nothing to show but a FPGA prototype, and anyone can make a video of that (eg sluicebit), it proves nothing.

ASIC is an all-or nothing product. Until the chips come out of the foundry there is nothing to show.

Are you seriously referring to this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlzTyBjIins, They do not show anything at all. No CGMINER or anything.  Are you seriously giving an example of sluicebit? Please re-look at their video, it is random numbers with no proof, or cgminer or anything running.

Also if i'm not mistaken this is a normal route, cointerra showed an fpga prototype and put up renders.

KNCMINER made an enclosure, again with an FPGA inside.

Company can only prototype in fpga... and we have to rely on their experts or alliances.. in kncminers case it was ORSOC, and this case it is dexcel design (who appear to be allianced with folks http://www.dexceldesigns.com/alliances.html).  It is just the game that it is....but please don't mention sluicebit, that was NOT any form of a demonstration.

I think from looking at previous examples.. it is not hard to make ASIC's for bitcoin or even litecoin, it's not about how amazing engineer you are because there are millions around the world, i think it's about who you know, contacts e.g. with foundries etc.... it is more of a business venture than a "innovative" engineering venture. My 2 cents ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on January 03, 2014, 06:44:03 AM
Scrypt ASIC Chip POC Prototype Video

You can view update on our website: https://alpha-t.net/news/scrypt-asic-poc-prototype-video/

The following video is an ASIC Chip prototype demonstration done on FPGA based ASIC prototyping board. The demonstration is by one of our engineers from our engineering partners in India, Dexcel Designs. The video demonstrates our ASIC design and core speeds working live. The ASIC design document this demonstration relates to can be found here:
https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf.

You may note that we had bettered hashing speed per core as compared to last time we published our results in our Prototyping Design Document.

As stated in the following video, our ASIC design POC has not been optimised for any specific FPGA, instead optimised for multi-core scalability with ASIC in mind. That's why it's important we show our core speed and number of cores we are targeting as per the final ASIC chip. Based on this design and global foundries process node, die sizes and the associated costs have been arrived at and we will be going ahead with the fabrication, post final back end verification.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA

Our next update will be the official launch in which we will start taking orders for batch 1 along with instructions.

A note to all forum viewers, we will be further populating our FAQ section to answer all your questions. If you feel some of your questions are still unanswered please email us on [email protected], and we will get back to you as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 03, 2014, 07:16:08 AM
It seems some people still don't understand the ASIC development cycle. It goes something like this...

1. Pay some engineers to do the design. This takes several months.
2. Pay the mask manufacturer to create the production masks. This is the most expensive part and takes several weeks.
3. Pay the foundry to manufacture a batch of (a minimum of several thousand) chips. This again takes several months.
4. Assemble the chips onto boards and ship to your customers. This is perhaps the cheapest part.
5. Repeat from step 3 if you still have customers to service.

Alpha are perhaps at stage 1 in this process. They have nothing to show yet (other than a FPGA prototype which is just eye candy, it has no meaningful place in the development process). Lots of money will be spent getting to stage 3, and you better hope they don't make any mistakes as a rework is extremely expensive (almost as much money again). Most of the expense is up-front development and tooling (mask) costs. The unit cost of the chips themselves is a small proportion (think of it this way, the first chip costs a million dollars, the second one and all the rest perhaps just one dollar each).

Now consider how you go about funding this process.

ASIC NRE starts at around $100k (for an ancient 120nm process node). For the sort of process Alpha are targeting its probably in the low millions range (you could try asking but its usually very commercially-in-confidence). I'm rather tickled by all the requests for video demonstrations. Until the development is done (and all the money spent), they will have nothing to show but a FPGA prototype, and anyone can make a video of that (eg sluicebit), it proves nothing.

ASIC is an all-or nothing product. Until the chips come out of the foundry there is nothing to show.

You definitely seem to know your stuff and I would likely value your opinion. All things considered, should any of us look to purchase these pre-orders?

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 03, 2014, 09:16:43 AM
You definitely seem to know your stuff and I would likely value your opinion. All things considered, should any of us look to purchase these pre-orders?

I'm not going to give investment advice. The purpose of my comment was just to clear up some misconceptions about the ASIC development cycle (read through the previous few pages of comments and you'll the sort of questions being asked show that this was needed).

I've now viewed the video and thank Alpha for the professional delivery (compare with Sluicebit's video for a less professional version). I'll just make the following comments ...

The FPGA demonstration video is just that, a demonstration of a VC707 board running at 43khash/sec. It shows that their engineers can design, compile and run FPGA HDL code and interface with cpuminer. This is useful in that it shows they have basic competence in FPGA (but I would expect that of a company like Dexcel), but says nothing about their competence to design an ASIC and take it through to production. That is a much more difficult task. I'm NOT saying that they are not up to it, just that the demonstration video shows nothing of their ASIC design skills.

One final point. The VC707 board costs $3495 (link) (http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-V7-VC707-G.htm) and they have coaxed 43kHash/sec out of it. A ztex 1.15y costs 599EUR new (link) (http://shop.ztex.de/product_info.php?products_id=74&language=en). I could make a similar video myself right now showing this to produce 60kHash/sec on cgminer. Draw your own conclusions from this.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on January 03, 2014, 10:03:43 AM
good now that demostration is over we can pre-order  ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 03, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
good now that demostration is over we can pre-order  ;D

Yes, indeed, we want to progress to the next stage: buying a - very expensive - lottery ticket.

Then the fun part starts: franctically scouring all forums to find out whether we have made a brilliant move or a very, very bad one. That process will take at least 6 months.

I for one can't wait to get to this fun part ;D

Then, if they haven't delivered by the end of Q2, the twilight phase of hope and despairs starts: they haven't delivered in time. Is it just a delay? Or have I lost all my money?

These are indeed interesting times! I am considering buying such a lottery ticket, but please: don't tell my wife.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 03, 2014, 11:36:41 AM
I have been leeching around following this development with great interest as the company is UK based.

I'm sorry but I had to register and comment after this disappointing show of bullsh!t.

In their October update they claimed to have reached great hashing speeds on their prototypes however the speeds shown are less then average of an FPGA board.

Little bits of bullsh!t from their upfates coupled with their massive PR push just tells me that this is nothing more than a well organized scam.

I for one will not be spending a single penny to fund this company until they show that they have a fully working product hashing at the advertised speeds. Let them spend their own money getting the design finished, then open the pre-ordering for manufacturing.

I can set up a company tomorrow, spout a load of bullsh!t, mock up a board and show hashing speeds of 1Mh+ off a GPU and say its from the actual board. This is easily done when the connections from the board to the the PC are not shown like in their video. I can even go as far to showing the connections and have the monitor plugged on another machine.

Unless they show the advertised hashing speeds it is likely that they will never achieve them and any money spent will be going into a black hole.

The first rule to making a decent return on investment is to invest wisely...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 03, 2014, 11:39:27 AM
Very good first post!

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on January 03, 2014, 11:59:23 AM
Alpha Techology you was to suppose to show us working prototypes of your computer generated designs, we really did expect more after all the hype, i think you have just ruined this for everybody,i dont think you will be getting preorders to fund the devices.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: CryptoQuo on January 03, 2014, 12:24:31 PM
I really hope to get my BTCs back from Labcoin so to invest in Alpha Tech.
 ::)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 03, 2014, 12:41:57 PM
I was expecting to see a working ASIC chip operating maybe not at full hash rate, but at least close to it. Good to know Alpha has no working prototype; now I can invest my money elsewhere.

Am I right in assuming that the hashing rates for the final products were pulled out of a hat?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on January 03, 2014, 12:55:28 PM
You definitely seem to know your stuff and I would likely value your opinion. All things considered, should any of us look to purchase these pre-orders?

I'm not going to give investment advice. The purpose of my comment was just to clear up some misconceptions about the ASIC development cycle (read through the previous few pages of comments and you'll the sort of questions being asked show that this was needed).

I've now viewed the video and thank Alpha for the professional delivery (compare with Sluicebit's video for a less professional version). I'll just make the following comments ...

The FPGA demonstration video is just that, a demonstration of a VC707 board running at 43khash/sec. It shows that their engineers can design, compile and run FPGA HDL code and interface with cpuminer. This is useful in that it shows they have basic competence in FPGA (but I would expect that of a company like Dexcel), but says nothing about their competence to design an ASIC and take it through to production. That is a much more difficult task. I'm NOT saying that they are not up to it, just that the demonstration video shows nothing of their ASIC design skills.

One final point. The VC707 board costs $3495 (link) (http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-V7-VC707-G.htm) and they have coaxed 43kHash/sec out of it. A ztex 1.15y costs 599EUR new (link) (http://shop.ztex.de/product_info.php?products_id=74&language=en). I could make a similar video myself right now showing this to produce 60kHash/sec on cgminer. Draw your own conclusions from this.

Feedback from the community is always good. A VC707 board has Xilinx Virtex 7 485T having 485760 logic cells. However Ztex board has got 4 Spartan 6 LX150 amounting to total of 589772 logic cells allowing to fit more cores , better routing etc. We are sure that this will definitely get better hashing.
 
Our design has not been made to get max juice out of an FPGA, but the scalability has been kept in mind so that cores can scale frequency and in number.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on January 03, 2014, 01:02:46 PM
Alpha Techology you was to suppose to show us working prototypes of your computer generated designs, we really did expect more after all the hype, i think you have just ruined this for everybody,i dont think you will be getting preorders to fund the devices.

I was expecting to see a working ASIC chip operating maybe not at full hash rate, but at least close to it. Good to know Alpha has no working prototype; now I can invest my money elsewhere.

It clearly states its a demonstration of this prototype with 8 cores: https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf (https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf) The final product will have 128 cores. It's exactly what I expected and it didn't suprise me one bit. Didn't impress me either for that matter.


What useful information you can get out of a presentation video is another matter altogether.

I can make the same one with a broken FPGA board. Just a simple console program that will look like cgminer and display some hashing going on.

Even if a trusted community member went to them and tried some actual mining, all we would know is that they have a working scrypt FPGA. And even if they are sincere about plans to make an ASIC out of it you can still have another BFL all over again.

You guys expect a nearly finished product 6 months before shipping. Soldering the chips and making the boxes is the easy part. Doesn't take 6 months.

Every preorder for a mining ASIC is a lotery ticket. What you guys expected from this video is going to happen no sooner than in 6 months (maybe never) when the first customer post it here.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 03, 2014, 01:08:13 PM
The sad thing here is that there are teams on this forum who were able to advance much further in their product development without even mentioning making a preorder.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 03, 2014, 01:19:46 PM

You guys expect a nearly finished product 6 months before shipping. Soldering the chips and making the boxes is the easy part. Doesn't take 6 months.


UKAlphatwitter: "Shipping is in Q2 2014"

That means 3-6 months. I believe to be able to ship on time they have much less than 6 months.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 03, 2014, 01:42:33 PM
Feedback from the community is always good. A VC707 board has Xilinx Virtex 7 485T having 485760 logic cells. However Ztex board has got 4 Spartan 6 LX150 amounting to total of 589772 logic cells allowing to fit more cores , better routing etc. We are sure that this will definitely get better hashing.
 
Our design has not been made to get max juice out of an FPGA, but the scalability has been kept in mind so that cores can scale frequency and in number.

Yes, and this was rather the point that I was making. The FPGA demonstration simply shows you have a working RTL design for a scrypt core getting 43/20 = 2.15kHash/sec at FPGA clock speeds from 1024kBit of ram per core (37969920 bits total for the XC7VX485T, 20 cores and 54% utilized as quoted from the video).

The next step is to do the ASIC design, simulation, verification (several months work), tape-out, mask manufacture, fabrication (several more months), and only then will you have some chips build into your product. By which time I'm guessing you will have spent several million dollars in NRE costs which have to be funded in advance (the pre-orders will help, but I hope you have deep pockets to fund the balance otherwise bankruptcy awaits).

I'd love to know what your actual costings are (NRE, cost per wafer, die size, expected yield), so as to estimate your break-even point in terms of unit sales, but this will be very sensitive information, so I guess you won't be disclosing it.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Totscha on January 03, 2014, 01:56:42 PM
UKAlphatwitter: "Shipping is in Q2 2014"

That means 3-6 months. I believe to be able to ship on time they have much less than 6 months.

Q2 basicaly means April 1st for the eager customer, and June 30th for the manufacturer. So 6 months ;) I tend to be a pesimist when deadlines are concerned. And it wasn't so long ago that they said Q2/Q3...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 03, 2014, 02:06:49 PM
Q2 basicaly means April 1st for the eager customer, and June 30th for the manufacturer. So 6 months ;) I tend to be a pesimist when deadlines are concerned. And it wasn't so long ago that they said Q2/Q3...

I am just trying to say that based on the shipping date they have announced I was expecting to see much more than a hashing FPGA board. I expect quite long production queues at foundries judging from delivery dates of bitcoin asics, but this is just speculation.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on January 03, 2014, 05:55:56 PM
You definitely seem to know your stuff and I would likely value your opinion. All things considered, should any of us look to purchase these pre-orders?

I'm not going to give investment advice. The purpose of my comment was just to clear up some misconceptions about the ASIC development cycle (read through the previous few pages of comments and you'll the sort of questions being asked show that this was needed).

I've now viewed the video and thank Alpha for the professional delivery (compare with Sluicebit's video for a less professional version). I'll just make the following comments ...

The FPGA demonstration video is just that, a demonstration of a VC707 board running at 43khash/sec. It shows that their engineers can design, compile and run FPGA HDL code and interface with cpuminer. This is useful in that it shows they have basic competence in FPGA (but I would expect that of a company like Dexcel), but says nothing about their competence to design an ASIC and take it through to production. That is a much more difficult task. I'm NOT saying that they are not up to it, just that the demonstration video shows nothing of their ASIC design skills.

One final point. The VC707 board costs $3495 (link) (http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-V7-VC707-G.htm) and they have coaxed 43kHash/sec out of it. A ztex 1.15y costs 599EUR new (link) (http://shop.ztex.de/product_info.php?products_id=74&language=en). I could make a similar video myself right now showing this to produce 60kHash/sec on cgminer. Draw your own conclusions from this.

The conclusion I draw is that I wish you were the one offering a scrypt ASIC product.  ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 03, 2014, 06:08:53 PM
The conclusion I draw is that I wish you were the one offering a scrypt ASIC product.  ;)

Thanks, but the risks are far too high for my liking to enter this business.

I won't bang on about this any further, and I do wish Alpha and all the other developers the best. However the ASIC business is fraught with risks, and I just want the punters to be aware of these before putting down their money. Several of the bitcoin sha256 ASIC manufacturers had severe problems or even went bust. Scrypt is far more complicated and the margins are much tighter over the GPU competition.

Anyway that's all I'm going to say on this lest I be accused of trolling. Caveat Emptor!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 03, 2014, 07:57:33 PM


The next step is to do the ASIC design, simulation, verification (several months work), tape-out, mask manufacture, fabrication (several more months), and only then will you have some chips build into your product. By which time I'm guessing you will have spent several million dollars in NRE costs which have to be funded in advance (the pre-orders will help, but I hope you have deep pockets to fund the balance otherwise bankruptcy awaits).

I won't bang on about this any further, and I do wish Alpha and all the other developers the best. However the ASIC business is fraught with risks, and I just want the punters to be aware of these before putting down their money. Several of the bitcoin sha256 ASIC manufacturers had severe problems or even went bust. Scrypt is far more complicated and the margins are much tighter over the GPU competition.
Anyway that's all I'm going to say on this lest I be accused of trolling. Caveat Emptor!

I think this info cannot be stressed enough. It means a lot hearing from someone that has significant knowledge on the actual background work behind something like this. Especially when this community is looking to put big money into this company..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on January 03, 2014, 09:01:44 PM
+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: pastet89 on January 03, 2014, 09:46:55 PM
Pasted just from the btc-e.com chat:

Quote
LISTEN FOLKS, I just did a check on alpha technologies and its company number does'nt correspond with the one on its website! Further more seems to have been disolved a few times and just started back up again. I maybe wrong but they don't pick up the phone.spread the word

Any of the UK guys being able to check if these guys are really alive at their office and if is ever opened?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: miztaziggy on January 03, 2014, 10:02:11 PM
I could have a look. I live approx 60 miles from there. I don't think there's that much to gain though. If someone really wants me to go and get a video of walking up to their office / house and knocking on the door, PM me.

I personally am not interested in LTC asics. I have GPU miners and I sell GPU rigs. I don't think ASICs will be that much of a game changer for LTC this year, I think it will come late 2014 early 2015.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: N8c on January 03, 2014, 10:55:15 PM
I could have a look.
Someone already did (https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.255).

Thanks for the offer though ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on January 03, 2014, 11:18:33 PM
great curb appeal https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.255

even better was that prototype video. Sure as hell isn't going to be smooth..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 04, 2014, 01:09:16 AM
I could have a look.
Someone already did (https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.255).

Thanks for the offer though ;)

I don't care what anyone says about startups, etc. If there's a company preparing to spend millions dollars on technology productions (which they will have to for these chips) they better damn well have a decent looking frontend office. I forgot about that image, and didn't get to comment. That "office" looks straight up terrible.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on January 04, 2014, 02:41:30 AM
alot of people saying its a scam on the youtube comments,what about the partnership they have with dexcel designs, why would a company make a deal if they was'nt trusted?

if you buy it with paypal and the company turn out to be a scam,then paypal will get your money back but isnt the refund option just for 45 Days max?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on January 04, 2014, 03:11:49 AM
Pre Orders Now Live!

Our pre order books are now open. Please go to the desired product page https://alpha-t.net/shop/ and add your quantity to your cart to complete checkout. There are 3 payment options which will be readily available to you. All the information you need in regards to order statuses can be found at My Account > View Order.

Bank Transfers may take a few days to clear, we will allow sufficient time for these transfers to clear.

If you experience any problems our email support team at [email protected] are available 24/7. Please only use this email only for problems with current orders and payments. Quote order # in Subject area.

Order books will remain open till we have reached our limit for batch 1. When order books close, Bank Transfer customers will have a grace period of 5 working days to complete their purchases.

All customers whose orders are successfully in the 'Processing' status, will join the Batch 1 queue and will be part of the first people to receive their Scrypt ASIC devices. Once pre order stage has been completed, our loyal customers will be getting weekly updates and will be following us every step of the way up to the delivery of their devices! We are hoping these updates will give better hash rates, better power consumption, and smaller sized enclosures than quoted!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: addy336 on January 04, 2014, 04:04:43 AM
The website is down!!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Phidian on January 04, 2014, 04:38:51 AM
Working on the site bandwidth?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on January 04, 2014, 05:29:12 AM
So alarm bells are ringing here

People are saying on irc that anyone can sign up with a partnership with dexcel designs if you have the money,you dont have to have any background whats so ever,its just about the money and if you have it you can get a partnership.

Anyone can rent an empty office and get a sign fitted to it

The guy is an accountant so all this is just figures

We dont not see a working prototype hashing at 5MH as shown on the website

Pay with bitcoin and you wont get it back
Pay with paypal and you wont get it back because of the 45 Day refund time expired
Pay with wiretransfer, they are not reversable

I have changed my mind not to order for these reasons
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Andareed on January 04, 2014, 05:54:47 AM
I'm not sure what sort of background you are looking for. All of the ASIC mining companies have been startups. I agree with you that nothing presented so far couldn't have been faked.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 04, 2014, 06:20:24 AM
So alarm bells are ringing here

People are saying on irc that anyone can sign up with a partnership with dexcel designs if you have the money,you dont have to have any background whats so ever,its just about the money and if you have it you can get a partnership.

Anyone can rent an empty office and get a sign fitted to it

The guy is an accountant so all this is just figures

We dont not see a working prototype hashing at 5MH as shown on the website

Pay with bitcoin and you wont get it back
Pay with paypal and you wont get it back because of the 45 Day refund time expired
Pay with wiretransfer, they are not reversable
I have changed my mind not to order for these reasons

+1 (x 999999)

this community needs to wake up and smell the coffee before the get majorly scammed...

cmon people..

(http://i.imgur.com/AFBVVna.jpg)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noogens on January 04, 2014, 08:10:36 AM
if you buy it with paypal and the company turn out to be a scam,then paypal will get your money back but isnt the refund option just for 45 Days max?

Paypal WILL NOT refund after 45 days (even IF it's a scam) or if the stuff bought is "virtual"!
Been on that road too often... So please do not rely on paypal. Boycot it.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 04, 2014, 09:18:35 AM
If you pay with paypal, you pay with credit card. You can initiate a refund process on your credit card, especially for the second payment 8-10 weeks before delivery.

Nonetheless the site is still down.

If i ordered here i also wouldnt have a good feeling about this.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 04, 2014, 09:23:21 AM
even for taking your money they have technical problems.... seriusly....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on January 04, 2014, 09:28:25 AM
the website is down because there are too many suckers that want to give away good money. So sad, so sad....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noflyzone on January 04, 2014, 10:55:15 AM
Site is up again, has anyone made a preorder? It is strange they opened preorders so fast in the middle of the night!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 04, 2014, 10:59:09 AM
Seems to be up and you can order.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ltcminingltd on January 04, 2014, 11:05:01 AM
Looking at this from a business point of view, It is very simple :

Any company/person would get MORE orders/preorders and interest if they had a working ASIC prototype as proof.

Simple business logic, you are more likely to get customers with a working prototype, why on earth damage your rep and future chances of orders without anything to back it up.

I understand the whole preorder thing but from a business perspective it's insane to accept preorders without a working prototype, all it does is sow seeds of distrust around your company, any CEO or manager would know this.

Standing back and looking at this with that in mind, it appears as a well designed scam or poor poor business management.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 11:05:35 AM
Site is up.

Made 2 orders in 5 minutes, one got number 48XX, the other got 49XX.
So let's say they did not put some "increment-by-10" numbering, and taking that a third of their orders got payed, and that all theirs orders are for the smallest unit, that makes:

5000 orders / 3 * £405 = £675000.

At this rate, they'll get to millions soon -- guessing funding won't be a problem for them  :P

But anyhow will be ordering both alpha's and fibonacci's rigs; splitting risks.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: patronis on January 04, 2014, 11:12:13 AM
maybe a sucker is born every 10 min.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on January 04, 2014, 11:20:05 AM
Site is up again, has anyone made a preorder? It is strange they opened preorders so fast in the middle of the night!

Its strange they open preorders altogether
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 04, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
onestly, for that price, imagine what GPU will be in Q2! and lest's not forget mother boards manufacturer... accesories... building a nice rig will be easyer and chiper. If UKalpha delivers on time the only advantage they will have should be on power consomption. If you plane to buy 10 or 50 of them, that will be a intersting money for 2 or 3 month... but if you don'y have 100000€ to risc, stays on GPU...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: charlesd on January 04, 2014, 11:42:03 AM
Site is up.

Made 2 orders in 5 minutes, one got number 48XX, the other got 49XX.
So let's say they did not put some "increment-by-10" numbering, and taking that a third of their orders got payed, and that all theirs orders are for the smallest unit, that makes:

5000 orders / 3 * £405 = £675000.

At this rate, they'll get to millions soon -- guessing funding won't be a problem for them  :P

But anyhow will be ordering both alpha's and fibonacci's rigs; splitting risks.

I made an order around the same time and is in the very low 50xx range. Used PayPal so payment is confirmed.

Here's hoping that at least some of this money will be used to remove the graffiti on that corrugated iron door.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 04, 2014, 11:43:15 AM
Any company/person would get MORE orders/preorders and interest if they had a working ASIC prototype as proof.

Simple business logic, you are more likely to get customers with a working prototype, why on earth damage your rep and future chances of orders without anything to back it up.

I understand the whole preorder thing but from a business perspective it's insane to accept preorders without a working prototype, all it does is sow seeds of distrust around your company, any CEO or manager would know this.

Its not really that simple in the ASIC business. Have a look at my post on the ASIC development cycle (link) (https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.msg88261#msg88261).

It is possible to create a prototype ASIC chip (google "MPW Shuttle"), but this just adds additional expense and a further 2 to 4 months to the development cycle. So manufacturers will often omit this stage and go straight for volume production instead. The very first time they will have an ASIC chip in their hands, it will be as a batch of several thousand. So (assuming it actually works) the delay between the first prototype and volume shipping of product can be as little as a few weeks (to iron out any niggles in manufacture of the board and enclosure). Think about what this implies for the business perspective of funding the (huge) NRE cost of that first batch of ASIC chips.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ljuni0rl on January 04, 2014, 11:57:43 AM
I can confirm that the site is up again and took a risk to have a preorder with the order number range 49XX.
If anything goes wrong before 45days , I would suggest everyone to take class action against the company and get refund from Paypal. I also have a feeling that Paypal might cancel the company account sooner or rather than later due to this type of trading practice.
It is such a big joke that Alpha did not take a proper measure in regards to Bandwidth speed of the site as this is not the first time the site was down due to a high traffic.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 12:08:27 PM
It is such a big joke that Alpha did not take a proper measure in regards to Bandwidth speed of the site as this is not the first time the site was down due to a high traffic.

Scaling up and down a website relative to traffic, while being practical and not costly, is not an easy task.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: charlesd on January 04, 2014, 12:08:58 PM
Is there a http://bfl.ptz.ro/ (http://bfl.ptz.ro/) equivalent for this so we can create a community list of orders?

Also, I'd be keen to hear from people with order number range less than #4000 and whether your order is in "Processing" state.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 12:23:48 PM
Is there a http://bfl.ptz.ro/ (http://bfl.ptz.ro/) equivalent for this so we can create a community list of orders?

I'll make one.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on January 04, 2014, 12:47:32 PM
We apologise for the downtime of our website, we were experiencing some server issues. We have now stabilised, and the site is running much smoother. Bitcoin status updates were delayed, but now are Processing instantly.

The Pre Orders are live again https://alpha-t.net/
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 12:54:33 PM
Question: What is the size of Batch 1?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 04, 2014, 12:56:29 PM
does anyone have a number order that finish by anything els than a 0 ? wondering...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kirigaya on January 04, 2014, 01:05:50 PM
Yes i have #5154
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Noflyzone on January 04, 2014, 01:10:19 PM
I have #5416 ordered @12.45 UTC
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Zippe on January 04, 2014, 01:11:53 PM
i have #5453
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 04, 2014, 01:39:14 PM
Well if there are thousands of Alpha-miners on the market, the difficulties will explode and each miner will hash 10$ per month?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ljuni0rl on January 04, 2014, 01:44:56 PM
Well if there are thousands of Alpha-miners on the market, the difficulties will explode and each miner will hash 10$ per month?
In this case, I would propose everyone to stop mining for at least two days to lower down the difficulties and save electricity  8) Meaning we make a balance in network hashing, difficulties and save the Earth from Green House effect  :P My 2 Cents
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 04, 2014, 01:51:41 PM
I ve done some calculations.
I assume Alpha will sell 10.000 units, 8.000 units with 5Mh/s and 2.000 units with 25Mh/s.

This is a total of 90Gh/s extra power, what does this mean for difficulties? ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on January 04, 2014, 01:53:16 PM
Is the 'distance selling act' for UK applicable with a pre-order purchase?
Is the payment made to a UK resident/account?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 04, 2014, 02:01:43 PM
I ve done some calculations.
I assume Alpha will sell 10.000 units, 8.000 units with 5Mh/s and 2.000 units with 25Mh/s.

This is a total of 90Gh/s extra power, what does this mean for difficulties? ;)

According to litecoinpool.org the current nethash is 99GH/s, so this would roughly double the difficulty.

I did some calculations myself. Assume $5million for NRE costs (a total guess), say a few $hundred to manufacture a 5MH/s unit, then its $5M/$2000 = 2500 units to break even. So 10,000 units is not a bad ballpark figure.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Andareed on January 04, 2014, 02:10:47 PM
Why do you assume ASICs will provide strictly additional mining power rather than replacement power? How many people will sell their GPU rigs once they get an ASIC?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on January 04, 2014, 02:12:11 PM
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18503455&page=236
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 04, 2014, 02:35:33 PM
Do notice you can add 1 million items to your cart and checkout without issue..

Quote
Site is much faster and we overcame some major DDoS attempts.

Complete lie. They use cloudflare and they confirmed no such thing.



Good luck to all of you taking this risk.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Anddos on January 04, 2014, 03:05:27 PM
Any info on CHESHIRE TECHNOLOGY LTD
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 04, 2014, 03:27:28 PM
Do notice you can add 1 million items to your cart and checkout without issue..
did you finilise the payment to? ::)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bill_d on January 04, 2014, 03:31:32 PM
http://www.companieslist.co.uk/prev/08483921-cheshire-technology-ltd .... note no UK establishment, tho not quite sure what that means exactly

Dexcel presumably doing all manufacture and QC

http://www.dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html

Guess it's possible that UK presence doesn't add up to much if most of the actual work is being done in India?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bill_d on January 04, 2014, 03:33:58 PM
Dexcel

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=36767542
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jj2910 on January 04, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
Their (Alphas) VAT number passes VIES VAT number validation so the two MOHAMMED AKRAM directors would be on HMRC's radar if they ran away with the deposits.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 04, 2014, 04:06:12 PM
Their (Alphas) VAT number passes VIES VAT number validation so the two MOHAMMED AKRAM directors would be on HMRC's radar if they ran away with the deposits.

Yes, but the real risk is that they spend the deposits on the ASIC engineering development, then take the final payments and commit to production (spending on the mask set and initial batch of wafers), then when the chips are delivered they discover a fault which requires a respin. No money left, firm goes bankrupt, no product and no criminal offence committed either (just bad luck).

Just a scenario. I'm not predicting this will happen, but the risk is there.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 04, 2014, 04:49:23 PM
Their (Alphas) VAT number passes VIES VAT number validation so the two MOHAMMED AKRAM directors would be on HMRC's radar if they ran away with the deposits.

Yes, but the real risk is that they spend the deposits on the ASIC engineering development, then take the final payments and commit to production (spending on the mask set and initial batch of wafers), then when the chips are delivered they discover a fault which requires a respin. No money left, firm goes bankrupt, no product and no criminal offence committed either (just bad luck).

Just a scenario. I'm not predicting this will happen, but the risk is there.

I concur that's the number one risk: a faulty design, with the likely result that the Alpha-t goes bankrupt.

And as opposed to a normal lottery, in this case one does not know the odds...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on January 04, 2014, 04:58:46 PM
Their (Alphas) VAT number passes VIES VAT number validation so the two MOHAMMED AKRAM directors would be on HMRC's radar if they ran away with the deposits.

Yes, but the real risk is that they spend the deposits on the ASIC engineering development, then take the final payments and commit to production (spending on the mask set and initial batch of wafers), then when the chips are delivered they discover a fault which requires a respin. No money left, firm goes bankrupt, no product and no criminal offence committed either (just bad luck).

Just a scenario. I'm not predicting this will happen, but the risk is there.

Well said, thanks for this. Helps potential buyers understand the risks involved.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 05:57:28 PM
Ok pre-order tracker set up, you can put there your pre-order infos!

http://alphat.emux.fr/

So we can follow our orders progress as it was done with BFL at http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: wesh on January 04, 2014, 06:12:29 PM
thanks allot mux , can you please delete the order number 1 , wrongly added, sorry
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 06:13:30 PM
thanks allot mux , can you please delete the order number 1 , wrongly added, sorry

Just did, no pb.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Lexazan on January 04, 2014, 06:33:03 PM
Does anyone has order number < 5000 ?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: LCD on January 04, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Ordered a 5 MH/s device after noticed that orders wew taken. Kids won't get food next weeks, but I did it!
Order #5163. Why? Because I think, if this would be a skam, he would allow pre-orders many month ago. At least after the device arrives, I hope to reduce my electricity bills.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
Does anyone has order number < 5000 ?

I do, see http://alphat.emux.fr/ .
I got them right at the moment when the website when up this morning.

So either we shall assume that 4800 orders went throught during the hour the website was alive after opening of preorders... or the order numbering didn't started at 1 ;-)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Vagnavs on January 04, 2014, 06:53:13 PM
I'm going to laugh when things don't work out. But good luck guys
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 04, 2014, 06:57:53 PM
Ok pre-order tracker set up, you can put there your pre-order infos!

http://alphat.emux.fr/


Could you put this into your signature? 3 pages later wont anyone notice this important page.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MrCallahan on January 04, 2014, 06:59:35 PM
Got my pre-order in, decided to give them a chance. But I'll be keeping a really close eye on them over the next month or so to determine if I should cancel or not.

I know a lot of people are saying these guys are the next BFL, even if they are in the sense that the product is delivered extremely late, the people that stuck with them and got in on the project early and received their units, became extremely profitable when the bitcoin prices skyrocketed. So even if the Alpha product does arrive late, hopefully those of us that got on the preorder will have some success with mining.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 07:02:40 PM

Could you put this into your signature? 3 pages later wont anyone notice this important page.

Good idea ;-)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on January 04, 2014, 07:31:18 PM
Do notice you can add 1 million items to your cart and checkout without issue..

Quote
Site is much faster and we overcame some major DDoS attempts.

Complete lie. They use cloudflare and they confirmed no such thing.



Good luck to all of you taking this risk.

If they are lieing blatantly like that and it can be proved then trust = 0%. Please Alpha as you will be monitoring this forum very closely on the first day you've opened for pre-orders can you please confirm whether your information about a DDoS attempt is 100% accurate?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 04, 2014, 07:33:49 PM
Alpha-t's tweet:
"Order number does not represent place in queue. It is based on time of payment receieved. Orders started from Order No. 4812."

So we have our explanation.
So at current rate, assuming a 1 5Mh/s order per order, they got (6500-4800)*£405 = £688,500 in preorders. So it seems they are on their way to be correctly funded for the engineering costs. But then, if it actually will suceed is another story.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jir0n on January 04, 2014, 07:53:45 PM
hi,

just jumped into the LTC mining game with the pre-order of 2x25Mh/s (#6252).. hope this turns out well ...
good luck to all others how invested ..

cheers
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 04, 2014, 08:01:04 PM
Got my pre-order in, decided to give them a chance. But I'll be keeping a really close eye on them over the next month or so to determine if I should cancel or not.

I know a lot of people are saying these guys are the next BFL, even if they are in the sense that the product is delivered extremely late, the people that stuck with them and got in on the project early and received their units, became extremely profitable when the bitcoin prices skyrocketed. So even if the Alpha product does arrive late, hopefully those of us that got on the preorder will have some success with mining.

Not many that stuck with BFL "became extremely profitable" I probably made 10x what any BFL Asic customer made from  mining PPCoin on 1.9GH/s gpu rig than they ever made waiting for their asics to arrive. Not to mention the litecoin I was mining in that time. KNC made sure BFL's were pretty much obsolete by the time the bulk shipped and if KNC throw their hat into this ring (as they have been considering) I'm pretty sure their will be a lot of Alpha customers cancelling and jumping ship, draining Alpha's already seemingly limited operating capitol.

This company may not be a scam from the outset, like Payonix but they could VERY EASILY FOLD mid way through the process, leaving people high and dry, like TerraHash.

If people in this community are so willing to accept such low burdens of proof before handing over money its only a matter of time before you lose it. This company, to me, doesn't look like anything any serious investor would consider. Which is obviously the case considering they are sniffing around here with another pre-order fiasco.

They are playing on the greed and naivety of newcomers who read about the bitcoin boom and are so desperate to jump on the train they are willing to overlook such blatant red flags its almost comical. They are taking a punt with your money, if you're happy with that, that's your business. I can't say I wish you the best as a wake up call is desperately needed in the crypto community to stop these ridiculous pre-order lotteries from continuing.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 04, 2014, 08:26:46 PM
Im surprised that there has been ordered such a low amount of 5Mh/s units oO
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Phidian on January 04, 2014, 08:38:00 PM
Does anyone has order number < 5000 ?

Yep, Order #4853 ... but who knows where I landed in the shipping queue with regard to the order going "processed". It took a bit of work to get that order through when the site was up and down like a bouncy ball last night.

I'm sure my "F5" key contributed to the DDOS...

IMHO, the shipping queue should just track the order number. It shouldn't really matter on who got the $$ in first with all the payment options (as long as the $$ was received within a reasonable amount of time), delivery time is so far away that its pretty much moot. but it is what it is...

Now, to sit back and cross my fingers.

-Phid
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 04, 2014, 09:13:05 PM
Ordered a 5 MH/s device after noticed that orders wew taken. Kids won't get food next weeks, but I did it!
Order #5163. Why? Because I think, if this would be a skam, he would allow pre-orders many month ago. At least after the device arrives, I hope to reduce my electricity bills.

I think the question is not anymore wether they are scam or not but will they be able to deliver what they have promised.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MrCallahan on January 04, 2014, 09:33:35 PM

Not many that stuck with BFL "became extremely profitable" I probably made 10x what any BFL Asic customer made from  mining PPCoin on 1.9GH/s gpu rig than they ever made waiting for their asics to arrive. Not to mention the litecoin I was mining in that time. KNC made sure BFL's were pretty much obsolete by the time the bulk shipped and if KNC throw their hat into this ring (as they have been considering) I'm pretty sure their will be a lot of Alpha customers cancelling and jumping ship, draining Alpha's already seemingly limited operating capitol.

This company may not be a scam from the outset, like Payonix but they could VERY EASILY FOLD mid way through the process, leaving people high and dry, like TerraHash.

If people in this community are so willing to accept such low burdens of proof before handing over money its only a matter of time before you lose it. This company, to me, doesn't look like anything any serious investor would consider. Which is obviously the case considering they are sniffing around here with another pre-order fiasco.

They are playing on the greed and naivety of newcomers who read about the bitcoin boom and are so desperate to jump on the train they are willing to overlook such blatant red flags its almost comical. They are taking a punt with your money, if you're happy with that, that's your business. I can't say I wish you the best as a wake up call is desperately needed in the crypto community to stop these ridiculous pre-order lotteries from continuing.

All valid points, and I definitely agree with them! but that's all part of the fun (fear) and risk in the crypto currency world right now. I wouldn't suggest Alpha if you're new to the crypto coin world, and sit there and wait until it comes in before you start mining. But if you have some play money set aside, and are willing to risk a pre-order, and hope to compliment your existing mining setup with the Alpha unit, then it could potentially pay off in the end, especially if LTC starts to replicate the success that BTC had in Q4 of 2013.

It's articles like this http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/06/how-a-total-n00b-mined-700-in-bitcoins (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/06/how-a-total-n00b-mined-700-in-bitcoins), that show where some people were successful. Mind you, this guy managed to get his hands on a unit before a lot of people. He mined 2.90 BTC before he had to call it quits with his early access BFL unit, if he held onto that for a while, he would have scored $3000+.

It's the optimist in me that's hoping that this pans out well for the people that are patient with these guys, It's always awesome to see people succeed when they take risks on things like this, especially since we're in the Wild West of the crypto currency world right now.

My thought process on this, I'm risking the pre-order cost, and I'm considering that money gone right now. In the mean time, I have my current mining rig doing its thing, and i'll leave that running as long as I can. If Alpha should take all my money and run or disappear, then hopefully my current mining rig pays off what I lost so I at least break even, or maybe it just cuts in to my potential profits. If Alpha delivers, then awesome! just beefed up my mining potential to help out with the difficulty increase, and then I'll be a happy camper.

In all, my biggest piece of advice I could offer (take that however you want), is just don't make this Alpha unit your primary investment! It's a huge risk and gamble, and just make sure you won't cutting yourself short on money if you happen to take the chance.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on January 05, 2014, 01:44:51 AM
Alpha, can you say how much shipping will be to the US for a 25MH/s unit?

Also, can you say how many units of each type are planned to be in Batch 1?

Also, will additional batches be made available to pre-order before Batch 1 ships?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 05, 2014, 01:53:18 AM
My instincts tell me that to pre order is a very risky, almost a retarded thing to do. No other good company would need to do this, they would find big investors.  Big investors are smart people and if they cannot get a big investor then no way would I trust them with my money.  If you are already rich and want to play a high risk wild card then pre order. If you have brains, can't afford to loose the money or are not a massive risk seeker then don't pre order.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: charlesd on January 05, 2014, 07:46:51 AM
Ok pre-order tracker set up, you can put there your pre-order infos!

http://alphat.emux.fr/

So we can follow our orders progress as it was done with BFL at http://bfl.ptz.ro/

You are awesome dude!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: cezarone on January 05, 2014, 09:20:22 AM
LOL someone took 20x25Mh  :o
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 05, 2014, 11:25:24 AM
Order 3444 could be a fake.  According to alpha its 4812 the lowest order number.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 05, 2014, 04:12:30 PM
OK, I got my lottery ticket. I didn't dare to part with the >1600 GBP, so I settled for a 5 MH/s version. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 05, 2014, 07:24:52 PM
Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 05, 2014, 07:34:07 PM
Order 3444 could be a fake.  According to alpha its 4812 the lowest order number.

Just kicked some trolls out  ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: changshui on January 05, 2014, 07:38:28 PM
Seems I can't check out my cart. Has to be a returning customer to do it? And there is no place I can register on their website.

Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: wndsr on January 05, 2014, 07:43:16 PM
Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.

And they don't take credit card, so there's no security if it all goes tits up.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 05, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.

Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.

Evidently it seems you have never ran a business in your life. Firstly, to be registered as a director you need to have identity verified. Secondly, they are all different individuals with different ages (from ages of 23-60), and have different company backgrounds, it is a family business. Big deal? I'm guessing they get referred to as their middle names as almost a lot of muslims have first name Mohammad...

That is besides the point, any company always has changes, adding, taking off directors etc. When i have an argument with my wife i take her off, then add her back in when i'm satisfied with my breakfast.....

Also why the asshole comments about the office? they will not be doing any engineering or manufacturing there... And buying or renting a building like that size is much more expensive than having your own little cubicle in a pretty looking business centre
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 05, 2014, 07:52:40 PM

Also why the asshole comments about the office? they will not be doing any engineering or manufacturing there... And buying or renting a building like that size is much more expensive than having your own little cubicle in a pretty looking business centre

Because they are funding multi million dollar technology hardware. That's why. End of story.   That office is garbage.


The mohammeds slip up on one single step (highly probable), and they're gone.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: changshui on January 05, 2014, 07:53:34 PM
The website is down.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 05, 2014, 07:54:41 PM
I am sorry but if you fall for these pre order ASIC scams you are a fool.  I have some magic beans you can buy. It will get you a golden goose that shits out golden eggs.  Just send me £1000 worth of bitcoin to 1Eo3suAng4rZhkRgiSvisB4Ac6pANWEMgG
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 05, 2014, 07:59:18 PM
Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.

Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.

Evidently it seems you have never ran a business in your life. Firstly, to be registered as a director you need to have identity verified. Secondly, they are all different individuals with different ages (from ages of 23-60), and have different company backgrounds, it is a family business. Big deal? I'm guessing they get referred to as their middle names as almost a lot of muslims have first name Mohammad...

That is besides the point, any company always has changes, adding, taking off directors etc. When i have an argument with my wife i take her off, then add her back in when i'm satisfied with my breakfast.....

Also why the asshole comments about the office? they will not be doing any engineering or manufacturing there... And buying or renting a building like that size is much more expensive than having your own little cubicle in a pretty looking business centre

Alright mate. Its your money. Try not to get your panties in a bunch.

For the record I run a very successful company and am a company director. (internet bullshit I know) It was a while ago but I don't remember jumping through too many hoops to start it. It can't be too hard where you're from either as you strike off your wife after an argument and add her again after breakfast ::)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bossman on January 05, 2014, 08:07:49 PM
So alarm bells are ringing here

People are saying on irc that anyone can sign up with a partnership with dexcel designs if you have the money,you dont have to have any background whats so ever,its just about the money and if you have it you can get a partnership.

Anyone can rent an empty office and get a sign fitted to it

The guy is an accountant so all this is just figures

We dont not see a working prototype hashing at 5MH as shown on the website

Pay with bitcoin and you wont get it back
Pay with paypal and you wont get it back because of the 45 Day refund time expired
Pay with wiretransfer, they are not reversable
I have changed my mind not to order for these reasons

+1 (x 999999)

this community needs to wake up and smell the coffee before the get majorly scammed...

cmon people..

(http://i.imgur.com/AFBVVna.jpg)

lol is this real ? what a scam
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: TheAce on January 05, 2014, 08:12:36 PM
I am sorry but if you fall for these pre order ASIC scams you are a fool.  I have some magic beans you can buy. It will get you a golden goose that shits out golden eggs.  Just send me £1000 worth of bitcoin to 1Eo3suAng4rZhkRgiSvisB4Ac6pANWEMgG

man i want that goose shiting golden eggs, sending you BTCs  8)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: CryptoQuo on January 05, 2014, 08:15:00 PM
To open a LTD company in UK you need very little information. Everything is done online, and no need to provide proof of identity or such (passport, ID, etc..).
http://startups.co.uk/forming-a-limited-company-the-required-documents/

Cost is very low and can be done via third party:
http://www.companiesmadesimple.com/company-formation-name-search.html?namesearch=yes

I m not implying anything regarding Alpha, just that it is extremely easy to create such company without providing any substantial infos. So be aware (caveat emptor, bla bla...)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: changshui on January 05, 2014, 08:21:29 PM
So alarm bells are ringing here

People are saying on irc that anyone can sign up with a partnership with dexcel designs if you have the money,you dont have to have any background whats so ever,its just about the money and if you have it you can get a partnership.

Anyone can rent an empty office and get a sign fitted to it

The guy is an accountant so all this is just figures

We dont not see a working prototype hashing at 5MH as shown on the website

Pay with bitcoin and you wont get it back
Pay with paypal and you wont get it back because of the 45 Day refund time expired
Pay with wiretransfer, they are not reversable
I have changed my mind not to order for these reasons

+1 (x 999999)

this community needs to wake up and smell the coffee before the get majorly scammed...

cmon people..

(http://i.imgur.com/AFBVVna.jpg)

lol is this real ? what a scam

WOW, in what community is is? Does not look like where a tech company should locate...

You saved me a couple of thousands dollars, dude!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 05, 2014, 08:25:19 PM
To open a LTD company in UK you need very little information. Everything is done online, and no need to provide proof of identity or such (passport, ID, etc..).
http://startups.co.uk/forming-a-limited-company-the-required-documents/

Cost is very low and can be done via third party:
http://www.companiesmadesimple.com/company-formation-name-search.html?namesearch=yes

I m not implying anything regarding Alpha, just that it is extremely easy to create such company without providing any substantial infos. So be aware (caveat emptor, bla bla...)

The prosecution rests m'lud
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bearsworth on January 05, 2014, 08:25:46 PM
Interesting.........

Mohammed Akram terminated his directorship of Alpha on the 29th of December, then reissued it as Mohammed Jafar Akram , using Alpha's company address as his home address. Looking at the history of this company They have only been around as Alpha since 22nd July.
The company director has changed his name 3 times, Mohammed Akram, Mohammed Jafar Akram, Mohammed Mubasher Akram. Its moved addresses twice and asked to be stuck off. https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/Company/AllDocuments/alpha-technology-(int)

That's some shady shit. This does not look like a good investment.

They take credit cards - paypal.

And they don't take credit card, so there's no security if it all goes tits up.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 05, 2014, 08:41:57 PM
Just requested a refund of a 5MH unit. This would be a good try-out to see if the guy is legit.
If he/the company is, the refund should be no problem and i'd have no problem ordering a 25MH unit.

(oh yeah, registered here just to follow this thread, i've been mining for quite some time on 15 GPU's)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 05, 2014, 08:54:17 PM
To open a LTD company in UK you need very little information. Everything is done online, and no need to provide proof of identity or such (passport, ID, etc..).
http://startups.co.uk/forming-a-limited-company-the-required-documents/

Cost is very low and can be done via third party:
http://www.companiesmadesimple.com/company-formation-name-search.html?namesearch=yes

I m not implying anything regarding Alpha, just that it is extremely easy to create such company without providing any substantial infos. So be aware (caveat emptor, bla bla...)

That would be true if they had no identity. But they have an accountancy firm (next door) and the person born in 1948 has been part of different companies and such in the past......
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 05, 2014, 09:17:48 PM
Just requested a refund of a 5MH unit. This would be a good try-out to see if the guy is legit.
If he/the company is, the refund should be no problem and i'd have no problem ordering a 25MH unit.

(oh yeah, registered here just to follow this thread, i've been mining for quite some time on 15 GPU's)

They will charge you 70 pounds for the cancellation, seems like a waste of money.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 05, 2014, 09:21:40 PM
Just requested a refund of a 5MH unit. This would be a good try-out to see if the guy is legit.
If he/the company is, the refund should be no problem and i'd have no problem ordering a 25MH unit.

(oh yeah, registered here just to follow this thread, i've been mining for quite some time on 15 GPU's)

They will charge you 70 pounds for the cancellation, seems like a waste of money.

According to their news page: https://alpha-t.net/news/pre-order-update/ (https://alpha-t.net/news/pre-order-update/) i'd receive a full refund during the pre-order phase.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 05, 2014, 09:25:51 PM
Here https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ they state that they gonna charge 70£ handling fee for any cancellation and during any phase. So you would get a full refund minus 70 pounds, which is not really a full refund.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 05, 2014, 09:29:06 PM
Here https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ they state that they gonna charge 70£ handling fee for any cancellation and during any phase.

I know, just quoting the news page. Let's see how this legit this guy is.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 05, 2014, 09:37:03 PM
Here https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ they state that they gonna charge 70£ handling fee for any cancellation and during any phase.

I know, just quoting the news page. Let's see how this legit this guy is.

Their news items and twitts are full of misleading info. Few examples:

1. Issues with VAT
2. Refund policy
3. Shipping. They twitted that it would occur Q2 2014 but terms of order page says Q2/Q3 2014


It would be interesting to know what kind of a contract they have with dexcell. Is it full of misleading details as well? 

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 05, 2014, 10:40:28 PM
Here https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ they state that they gonna charge 70£ handling fee for any cancellation and during any phase.

I know, just quoting the news page. Let's see how this legit this guy is.

Their news items and twitts are full of misleading info. Few examples:

1. Issues with VAT
2. Refund policy
3. Shipping. They twitted that it would occur Q2 2014 but terms of order page says Q2/Q3 2014


It would be interesting to know what kind of a contract they have with dexcell. Is it full of misleading details as well?

Here https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ they state that they gonna charge 70£ handling fee for any cancellation and during any phase.

I know, just quoting the news page. Let's see how this legit this guy is.

i remember seeing a recent tweet, during pre-order phase there is full refunds, terms of order i think relates to after pre-order phase. But anyway we need to see this in real practice, to see if they are honest and legitimate. So lets see OVERSOFT feedback.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: JazzyJ on January 05, 2014, 10:56:11 PM
I've decided to cancel my order. No reply yet.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Netnietniks on January 05, 2014, 11:07:11 PM
What about this then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA

Seems legitimate to me.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 05, 2014, 11:20:09 PM
I just received my refund via PayPal. I ordered using BitPay, so i expected a BTC refund, but i received the entire 405 pounds via PayPal. I'll upload a PayPal screenshot tomorrow, i'm on my phone right now.

Fortunately, the 70 pound refund costs are not substracted right now.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 05, 2014, 11:27:00 PM
I just received my refund via PayPal. I ordered using BitPay, so i expected a BTC refund, but i received the entire 405 pounds via PayPal. I'll upload a PayPal screenshot tomorrow, i'm on my phone right now.

Fortunately, the 70 pound refund costs are not substracted right now.

Good to know!

Of course they paid in pounds, your bitcoins now cost more then two days ago. They actually have made some free money!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: csun on January 06, 2014, 12:31:18 AM
What about this then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA

Seems legitimate to me.

Issue isn't with legitimacy. Issue is with delivery timeline. Delays mean missed opportunity cost and is very detrimental for miners.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Netnietniks on January 06, 2014, 12:34:32 AM
What are the alternatives then? The AMD's I heard about?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 01:17:41 AM
I downloaded the companies house files relating to Alpha technologies. They are public record so if anyone wants to check them out I've uploaded them to Mega.

Not much of interest but here they are anyway https://mega.co.nz/#!8sEUUIZQ!CBWadQgalEKYPRx6qQHaGXGhcMFmoFaOqaGK6dysC1g

Sheds a bit more light on who are the company directors and where Cheshire Technologies was based.

Also, regarding  their other company. According to companies house M Akram and co was incorporated 08/04/2013 http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails
Changed from MAC ACCOUNTING SOLUTIONS LIMITED 29/05/2013
But according to their site http://www.akramco.com/about.html (http://www.akramco.com/about.html) it was started in 1986?? Anyone want to clear this up?


We need all the facts we can get before jumping into this. I'm putting this out there for anyone interested to research
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 02:08:19 AM
Quoted from Wasubii on the bitcointalk thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It's looking to me that these guys aren't here to cut and run with the coins (but don't take my word for it, do your own due diligence for god's sake).

It seems like they have connections in India to someone who reckons they can bang out a script ASIC. After all, its just circuit boards and chips and stuff.

The problem is, that it takes more than just connections to pull something like this together.

The management of this company have yet to explain what experience they have in managing a large project, on time, in an industry it seems they don't have any experience in.

Any one of us here could go find a board design company in China or India who could make a scypt ASIC. Then you just need a website and some vague promises and.... KERCHING... preorder money flows in and hopefully you will be able to make good on all your promises about price, timescale, hashing speed etc.

Thats what is happening here. Some family in a dingy part of Manchester who know someone in India who thinks they can make an ASIC. I wonder how much of their own money the Akrams have put into this venture. I would guess little to none. Why bother? just get the preorders to pay for everything.
That way if it all goes south, just walk away.

'So sorry, our Indian partners couldn't deliver and we have already spent all the preorder money - you accepted the risk, its not our fault'

or

'Our indian partners underestimated the costs of the boards, you can still have them but they will cost 4x more and be completely uncompetitive compared to GPUs'"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I couldn't put it better
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 06, 2014, 02:17:27 AM
So alarm bells are ringing here

People are saying on irc that anyone can sign up with a partnership with dexcel designs if you have the money,you dont have to have any background whats so ever,its just about the money and if you have it you can get a partnership.

Anyone can rent an empty office and get a sign fitted to it

The guy is an accountant so all this is just figures

We dont not see a working prototype hashing at 5MH as shown on the website

Pay with bitcoin and you wont get it back
Pay with paypal and you wont get it back because of the 45 Day refund time expired
Pay with wiretransfer, they are not reversable
I have changed my mind not to order for these reasons

+1 (x 999999)

this community needs to wake up and smell the coffee before the get majorly scammed...

cmon people..

(http://i.imgur.com/AFBVVna.jpg)

lol is this real ? what a scam

I'm not saying they are legit or otherwise, but the state of their office is no reason to decide one way or the other.

I used to co-own a small business in London. We made movie asset management software, and it was used in Star Wars (I), The Matrix, Bond films etc. I'd have loved an upgrade from where we used to work to premises like the photo. Seriously, small companies who get shit done, and who have their owners best interests in mind don't give a damn about what the office looks like, at the end of the day it's just a drag on company expenses. At least they sprung for a sign... We didn't.

Oh yeah, and as for payment, I used paypal to pay with a credit card. It won't be paypal I'll be contacting if it all goes pear-shaped, it'll be Visa. Having said that, it's money I'd obviously rather *not* lose, but it is money I can afford to lose. I'm gambling that they're legit, if not, well that's a shame, and I'll move on.

[For the record, eventually we made enough waves to get noticed, and ended up selling out to Apple. I now work for Apple R&D, and live in sunny CA, not bad for a lad who grew up not 30 miles from that there photo above, even if I say so myself.]

Bottom line: The expression "Don't judge a book by its cover" comes to mind. As I said at the top, I'm not vouching for them or criticizing them, I just don't think there's enough information to decide either way.



Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 02:28:42 AM
you probably need to read the rest of the info in this thread. It goes waaaay deeper than that dingy office.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 06, 2014, 02:37:02 AM
Retro. You are not as intelligent as your making yourself to be out are you? I'll explain to you the ways of the UK.

Companies House does not mean anything, anyone can make it, and companies are constantly changing directors etc. Do not use this as a source of legitimacy. Their accountants could have been a soletraders or any different form of a company.

If you want to search if their accountants are legit you search the individuals in their companies house, and that i have done. And i also went on http://www.akramco.com/about.html. And saw that M.J.AKRAM, aka, Mohammed Jafar Akram is ACCA registered. This takes years to accomplish, you cannot become one with a criminal record. If you make one fuck up your license disappears. I have a sister-in-law who is ACCA registered and it took her 4 years. You can confirm mohammed Jafar Akram is ACCA registered on this link: https://www.acca-business.org/dom/, Search manchester, his name , and where he lives according to companies house its Stockport. So everything is cleared their.

Now another thing, being IFA registered, Institute of Financial Accountants (IFA), is also no easy task and takes years. http://www.ifa.org.uk/find-an-accountant/, search here Manchester and radius 5 miles, you will see M.AKRAM AND CO accountants.

Now there are various other official accounting credentials you can check based on the individuals, and they confirm and check out.

A companies house record, i can make now and change and add new members etc. THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. USE official credentials that take years to accomplish, and verify them, to see legitimacy.

I also agree with the above comment. DO NOT judge a book by its cover, in relation to office front.

Now Retro, whose better at using google, me or you? I had a balanced point of view, and did not see what i wanted to see, just as you have done.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 06, 2014, 02:57:41 AM
Yep, we decided who was going to be director or company secretary by flipping a coin. We also changed things fairly regularly, took on another partner, then a marketing director who we eventually made chief exec (he'd forgotten more about business than I will ever know, it made sense). All of these required changes to the articles of association for the company.

Perhaps I ought to mention that the software ran for £60,000 per server. Clients typically bought 2 and ran them in parallel so they had a failover if one system went down.

Our office leaked...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 03:04:56 AM
Retro. You are not as intelligent as your making yourself to be out are you? I'll explain to you the ways of the UK.

Companies House does not mean anything, anyone can make it, and companies are constantly changing directors etc. Do not use this as a source of legitimacy. Their accountants could have been a soletraders or any different form of a company.

If you want to search if their accountants are legit you search the individuals in their companies house, and that i have done. And i also went on http://www.akramco.com/about.html. And saw that M.J.AKRAM, aka, Mohammed Jafar Akram is ACCA registered. This takes years to accomplish, you cannot become one with a criminal record. If you make one fuck up your license disappears. I have a sister-in-law who is ACCA registered and it took her 4 years. You can confirm mohammed Jafar Akram is ACCA registered on this link: https://www.acca-business.org/dom/, Search manchester, his name , and where he lives according to companies house its Stockport. So everything is cleared their.

Now another thing, being IFA registered, Institute of Financial Accountants (IFA), is also no easy task and takes years. http://www.ifa.org.uk/find-an-accountant/, search here Manchester and radius 5 miles, you will see M.AKRAM AND CO accountants.

Now there are various other official accounting credentials you can check based on the individuals, and they confirm and check out.

A companies house record, i can make now and change and add new members etc. THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. USE official credentials that take years to accomplish, and verify them, to see legitimacy.

I also agree with the above comment. DO NOT judge a book by its cover, in relation to office front.

Now Retro, whose better at using google, me or you? I had a balanced point of view, and did not see what i wanted to see, just as you have done.

Brilliant, just brilliant. You've established that M Akram is an actual accountant (like that was ever in dispute). This is the same highly qualified account that doesn't know the difference between VAT included and VAT excluded. Great! That qualifies them to run an asic company does it???.  BTW what do you do for an encore, find Elvis?? 

I don't really give a shit what we dig up on google so go have your pissing contest somewhere else. I do care that we HAD to dig this up on google. They have spoon fed us nothing more than a few promises and a crappy video, they didn't even tell us who ran the company. We had to DIG THAT UP.  But if that is enough for you than good luck to you. My inferior intelligence needs a bit more proof.

If they had been upfront and transparent from the beginning we wouldn't have to dig around google. But if they have shown you enough to part with your money, maybe you aren't as intelligent as you think.

Whether Mr Akram is with the  IFA,  ACCA  or bloody RAC is irrelevant. He could have worked for another accountancy firm for 30 years and just started his accountancy business.  It doesn't really matter. Its just pure speculation.  I'm more interested in Alpha technologies. So why don't you  do us all a favour and use your google ninja skills to dig up something useful, like info on them.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 06, 2014, 03:32:48 AM
I was merely pointing out a large red flag that their office is just garbage. For a company taking in this type of capital, that is inexcusable. End of discussion.

Yes obviously it goes far deeper. Many very knowledgeable people have commented on it throughout this thread as well as on reddit. Not everyone is saying they are a scam, yet it is a guarantee there will be no $$ to return if issues arise. There are far better gambling outlets than this startup.

But if they have shown you enough to part with your money, maybe you aren't as intelligent as you think.

^^^

Many of the justifications in this thread are literally pointless. If you have invested, accept you have taken a very large risk, and just hope for the best.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MrCallahan on January 06, 2014, 04:52:17 AM
I really do wish these guys communicated more with everyone, especially since that's key to gaining trust from people, communication. They have an account here, they created this thread, but yet they rarely communicate with people to answer the concerns that people have. I'm starting to question if I should cancel my pre-order.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tfbpa on January 06, 2014, 05:01:59 AM
OK, thanks to the info from Retro, here is what I made of the documents.

Lets start with some facts first. Due to very similar names of the family members, I have substituted the names of the individuals with the birth years as that seemed more easy to me.

1) on 11-04-2013, youngest brother with birth year 1990 registers company Cheshire Technology LTD, with his profession as "Electronics".

2) on the same date, 11-04-2013, youngest brother with birth year 1990 also signed application to dissolve the same company he just started.

3) on 26-04-2013 youngest brother with birth year 1990 registers on this forum as "AlphaTechnology".

4) On 28-04-2013 youngest brother with birth year 1990, known on this forum as "AlphaTechnology", who is a student of  Electronic Engineering, started this thread.

5) on 17-07-2013 he withdrew the application to the dissolve the company.

6) on 20-07-2013 he filed an application to change his role to Managing Director of the company.

7) on 22-07-2013 he changed the name of the company to Alpha Technology (INT) LTD.

8) on 30-11-2013 dad with birth year 1948 stepped into the company as Finance Director

9) on 29-12-2013 dad with birth year 1948 stepped out of the company and older brother with birth year 1987 took over the role of Finance Director

OK, those were the facts, now it is time for a bit of speculation as to who and what.

IMHO, this is what we have. A young student of Electronic Engineering has an idea to start selling mining ASIC's and fills out some forms to start a company. Because he has never done something like this before, he fills in wrong details on many parts of the forms and even fills in the wrong form entirely, i.e. to dissolve the company he started on the same day...

He also realized that it would be confusing to have different forum name and company name, together with the fact that the initial company formation was quite a mess. Therefore he changes the company name to reflect his forum name and also becomes Managing Director of the company instead of "Electronics".

When things start to get a bit serious, his dad, who most likely indeed has a lot of experience running a company, starts to get involved as Finance Director. Most likely he is too busy to really be involved in this business and since young brother needs help in something he has no experience in, i.e. running a company, older brother takes over the position of Finance Director.

So we have an inexperienced young entrepeneur wannabe who is stil a student, trying to make it big by selling mining ASIC's. He makes a deal with Dexcel Designs in India who actually has the expertise to make ASIC's to start the process and hope for the best.

Thanks to http://alphat.emux.fr/ we can have some insight to the orders, although many are fake, what we can take away are the order numbers. The orders started with number 4812 and is now minimum at order number 7932, which I personally definitely believe as my order number for 2 Vipers from 24 hours ago is also in the 7xxx. This means that a minimum of 3120 orders are placed. Now lets crack some numbers.

- First lets say that every order is only one small Viper, this means that he got 3120 x 405 GBP = 1,263,600 GPB in his bank account as deposits alone already. Since most businesses on the Internet are done in USD, lets convert that deposit into USD, which makes 2,074,280 USD. Yes, this is more than 2 Million USD as deposits which are already in his bank account, if you take the bare minimum possible amount of orders.

- Above is the bare minimum and I would like to crunch a few more numbers, which are more realistic in my opinion and still below what it is in reality, IMHO.

75% of the orders are for the small Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 small Vipers
25% of the orders are for the big Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 big Vipers

This comes down to 3120 x 0.75 x 1.25 x 405 GPB = 1,184,625 GBP for the small Vipers
and 3120 x 0.25 x 1.25 x 1,635 GPB = 1.594,125 for the big vipers

This in total in GBP for DEPOSITS only is: 2,778,750, which in USD total to 4,561,480 in DEPOSITS

Some knowledgeable persons have suggested that it will take approximately 5 Million USD to develop Scrypt ASIC miners. Well, Alpha Technologies now most likely already has that money in the bank account.

Since I do believe that Dexcel Designs is a real company and capable of designing and producing Scrypt ASIC miners, I think Alpha Technology has a real shot at actually delivering. Money wise it shouldn't be a problem, Dexcel Designs is capable and the only problem could be the completely inexperienced student who is running Alpha Technology, but hopefully his 3 year older brother has some more experience and I guess that either his dad or perhaps even better a real and truly experienced director can take over. No to mention that young brother should stop studying and focus completely on his new business.

Since these orders are totaling to over 15 Million USD, it should be good practise and financially viable to hire a family outsider as co-director, which I hope young brother will do.

If this story sounds familiar, it could be because many business owners drop out of Uni to start their own business either from home, in a garage or a converted take-out building in a not so good area, heck I am also a Uni drop-out and so are Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg just to name a few others.

I only do hope that he indeed will drop out of Uni and starts focussing entirely on this new business and please, if you read this, consider hiring outside help, the money is there so you can afford it and it will help everybody here on this forum who ordered and who are thinking about ordering to feel good about their investment if an experienced director is on board your company.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: medialab101 on January 06, 2014, 05:27:31 AM
OK, thanks to the info from Retro, here is what I made of the documents.

Lets start with some facts first. Due to very similar names of the family members, I have substituted the names of the individuals with the birth years as that seemed more easy to me.


Wow! Great writeup, I was hoping someone would post something like this.

Also, curious if anyone has tried to do a refund yet and what the results were.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: clockers25 on January 06, 2014, 05:33:38 AM
There was an earlier post I believe that successfully completed a refund
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 05:45:38 AM
OK, thanks to the info from Retro, here is what I made of the documents.

Lets start with some facts first. Due to very similar names of the family members, I have substituted the names of the individuals with the birth years as that seemed more easy to me.

1) on 11-04-2013, youngest brother with birth year 1990 registers company Cheshire Technology LTD, with his profession as "Electronics".

2) on the same date, 11-04-2013, youngest brother with birth year 1990 also signed application to dissolve the same company he just started.

3) on 26-04-2013 youngest brother with birth year 1990 registers on this forum as "AlphaTechnology".

4) On 28-04-2013 youngest brother with birth year 1990, known on this forum as "AlphaTechnology", who is a student of  Electronic Engineering, started this thread.

5) on 17-07-2013 he withdrew the application to the dissolve the company.

6) on 20-07-2013 he filed an application to change his role to Managing Director of the company.

7) on 22-07-2013 he changed the name of the company to Alpha Technology (INT) LTD.

8) on 30-11-2013 dad with birth year 1948 stepped into the company as Finance Director

9) on 29-12-2013 dad with birth year 1948 stepped out of the company and older brother with birth year 1987 took over the role of Finance Director


Nice bit of work there mate. I'm glad the documents were of some help. I don't necessarily agree with some of your assertions. But there is no denying they have taken a lot of money. The question is can they deliver on time and on budget. Or will someone else beat them to the punch.

There are a lot of if's and but's surrounding this company. Way too many for me. I wish those who have invested the best of luck but I'm going to wait until they deliver something or a more reliable source comes along. Caveat emptor.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Searing on January 06, 2014, 08:00:26 AM
OK, thanks to the info from Retro, here is what I made of the documents.

Lets start with some facts first. Due to very similar names of the family members, I have substituted the names of the individuals with the birth years as that seemed more easy to me.

1) on 11-04-2013, youngest brother with birth year 1990 registers company Cheshire Technology LTD, with his profession as "Electronics".

2) on the same date, 11-04-2013, youngest brother with birth year 1990 also signed application to dissolve the same company he just started.

3) on 26-04-2013 youngest brother with birth year 1990 registers on this forum as "AlphaTechnology".

4) On 28-04-2013 youngest brother with birth year 1990, known on this forum as "AlphaTechnology", who is a student of  Electronic Engineering, started this thread.

5) on 17-07-2013 he withdrew the application to the dissolve the company.

6) on 20-07-2013 he filed an application to change his role to Managing Director of the company.

7) on 22-07-2013 he changed the name of the company to Alpha Technology (INT) LTD.

8) on 30-11-2013 dad with birth year 1948 stepped into the company as Finance Director

9) on 29-12-2013 dad with birth year 1948 stepped out of the company and older brother with birth year 1987 took over the role of Finance Director


Nice bit of work there mate. I'm glad the documents were of some help. I don't necessarily agree with some of your assertions. But there is no denying they have taken a lot of money. The question is can they deliver on time and on budget. Or will someone else beat them to the punch.

There are a lot of if's and but's surrounding this company. Way too many for me. I wish those who have invested the best of luck but I'm going to wait until they deliver something or a more reliable source comes along. Caveat emptor.

you are likely correct I myself have ordered the small 2200 usd or so viper 5m unit....on the back of paypal with credit card option of 45 days to refund...it is a hedge and will take this time to see how it all plays out...also did it via amex which I think means I have 30 days beyond that (could be 15 days) and/or other options if it is a down right never ship kinda thing....so will take 45 days and ponder my naval on all this in deep thought also....it is gonna be paid for by stuff/crap etc I have in the attic...so only spend $$$ you can use....anyway at something like 686usd via paypal and 45 days to make up my mind.....via the cc option for fraud protection.........we will see...(fence sitting)

I've done dummer things BFL comes to mind (w/o cc option alas never do bank xfer with paypal always do cc for protection...don't make my mistake)

anyway the clock is ticking
Searing
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 06, 2014, 08:03:05 AM
[...]

Thanks to http://alphat.emux.fr/ we can have some insight to the orders, although many are fake, what we can take away are the order numbers. The orders started with number 4812 and is now minimum at order number 7932, which I personally definitely believe as my order number for 2 Vipers from 24 hours ago is also in the 7xxx. This means that a minimum of 3120 orders are placed. Now lets crack some numbers.

- First lets say that every order is only one small Viper, this means that he got 3120 x 405 GBP = 1,263,600 GPB in his bank account as deposits alone already. Since most businesses on the Internet are done in USD, lets convert that deposit into USD, which makes 2,074,280 USD. Yes, this is more than 2 Million USD as deposits which are already in his bank account, if you take the bare minimum possible amount of orders.

- Above is the bare minimum and I would like to crunch a few more numbers, which are more realistic in my opinion and still below what it is in reality, IMHO.

75% of the orders are for the small Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 small Vipers
25% of the orders are for the big Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 big Vipers

This comes down to 3120 x 0.75 x 1.25 x 405 GPB = 1,184,625 GBP for the small Vipers
and 3120 x 0.25 x 1.25 x 1,635 GPB = 1.594,125 for the big vipers

This in total in GBP for DEPOSITS only is: 2,778,750, which in USD total to 4,561,480 in DEPOSITS

Some knowledgeable persons have suggested that it will take approximately 5 Million USD to develop Scrypt ASIC miners. Well, Alpha Technologies now most likely already has that money in the bank account.
[...]

Wonderful calculations. Just one addition. In your calculations you assume that every order number exists. This may or may not be the case. I can't be 100% sure, but it does not appear to be the case. Of course, if so, Alpha-t does has less funds than you estimated.

The argument: the last digits of order numbers should follow a uniform distribution. Basically, one would expect just about the same number of each end digit in a sample. We have a sample, namely the order list. I took the current one (with 130 entries). This is the distribution of end numbers:

0: 13
1: 16
2: 12
3: 16
4: 17
5: 17
6: 13
7:  12
8:  7
9:  7

There do seem to be few eights and nines. What is the chance that in any sample of n=130, there are at most 7 of any two end digits?
Without running you through the calculations step by step, here's the intuition behind them: in order to get 7 eights and nines, one needs 116 other numbers (with a chance of 0.8 each) and 7 eights and 7 nines (with a chance of 0.1 each). Those 7 eights and 7 nines can appear in the first 14 entries of the sample, or in any other combination of locations. All combinations of 7 eights and nines in the sample should be added up. Furthermore, if there had been not 7 but 6 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0 eights or nines, I would also be suspicious, so I have to calculate the chance that at most 7 eights and 7 nines appear in the sample. Finally, we are focussing on eights and nines, but that could have been any other number with a low frequency of end digits, so I have to take into account that it could be any number that would have aroused my suspicion. The math:

P(Exactly 7 eights and 7 nines) = 0.8^116 * 0.1^7 * 0.1^7 * (14!/7!7!) * (130!/116!*14!) = 0.000430202
P(less than 7 eights and 7 nines) = (a lot of similar calculations!) = 0.0009
P(at most 7 eights and nines) = sum of the above chances = 0.0013
P(at most 7 of any two end digits) = (10!/8!2!) * P(at most 7 eights and nines) = 45 * 0.0013 = .06 = 6%

So there is an 6% chance that any sample of 130 out of a uniform distribution of end numbers contains at most 7 of any two end digits.
Seems a littly low!

Conclusion: there is a fair chance that Alpha-t has less orders than the order number (minus 4811) suggests.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bill_d on January 06, 2014, 08:55:46 AM
Definitely more numbers than orders - if you commence checkout you get a number whether you complete payment or not.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tfbpa on January 06, 2014, 09:33:03 AM
Thanks to both, the math is interesting and checkout/payment order numbers confirms the math.

Of course I also don't know, but since I just took the last probably number of that list, that of course also doesn't mean that was truly the latest order. If I wanted I could place a fake order now, but that doesn't seem nice, so I won't.

But if somebody places a real order and can report their number here, that of course would be nice, although we can never be sure of the real order number.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 06, 2014, 09:37:13 AM
Do not pre order. Why would you pay for a product that does not even exist yet. The chances of everything going smoothly and on time and not very high and that's providing they are honest traders in the first place.  Its far too easy to get roped in when someone is offering a deal that seems like its going to make you loads of money.  Even if they do make them, they will probably run them for a few months and give you bullshit about delays until the difficulty goes up and they are no longer worth having.  You will literally be funding someone elses giant ASIC mine and you will only get the product when they are no longer financially viable.

If someone has a golden egg laying goose do you think they are really going to hand it over to you?  Get real.  This is a scam.  You might get your product or money back but you will not get the golden egg laying goose.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 06, 2014, 10:52:03 AM
Do not pre order. Why would you pay for a product that does not even exist yet. The chances of everything going smoothly and on time and not very high and that's providing they are honest traders in the first place.  Its far too easy to get roped in when someone is offering a deal that seems like its going to make you loads of money.  Even if they do make them, they will probably run them for a few months and give you bullshit about delays until the difficulty goes up and they are no longer worth having.  You will literally be funding someone elses giant ASIC mine and you will only get the product when they are no longer financially viable.

If someone has a golden egg laying goose do you think they are really going to hand it over to you?  Get real.  This is a scam.  You might get your product or money back but you will not get the golden egg laying goose.

It's indeed a giant leap of faith. That's why I only gambled with money that I could spare.
Incidentally, the odd way of delivering the products (as I understand directly from the manufacturing plant in India) should make it less likely that they would deploy the machines for their own gain before shipping to end-consumers. Furthermore, I would expect that it's optimal for them, once (and assuming!) they have a working ASIC, to deliver the first batch to their customers and use the margine to buy a sh*tload of chips to start mining for themselves (and only produce small subsequent batches for customers). They would have honored their customers (implying they do not need to spend time on law suits etc), and they would be making a bundle.
Of course, this is all just speculation. I think anyone who have read this thread (it pops up on the first page in a Google search for Alpha-t scrypt miner) is sufficiently fore-warned and only has him/herselve to blame if it turns sour.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ltcminingltd on January 06, 2014, 10:59:37 AM
I would go and place down an order for 32 of their 25mh units, but I WON'T due to not enough information and not satisfying all my investing/purchasing criteria for this type of product, among many things.

Don't invest/purchase any pre orders unless your willing to take the risk, what many people don't grasp is nothing is even "guaranteed" with this type of product.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 06, 2014, 11:28:48 AM
Below is a screenshot of the refund they sent me.
I know it's not much proof (a screenshot is easily fakeable), but make of it what you will.

(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/t/0/AACpu8001N0P35TK4bQqeMEe4uWmxsHpdencPk5kPKbOgQ/12/18915944/jpeg/1024x768/3/1389013200/0/2/alpha-t-payment.jpg/EfjNBkPbneFpg1FjxUXV7Tns6I-XL1e98HhqBCTyyuI)

I already deposited this back to my bank account, so there won't be any problems with take-backs or stuff like that.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kuikens on January 06, 2014, 11:48:40 AM
Even a refund still doesn't prove much.
Like any pyramid scheme, you should allways pay the first members something to attract new victims.
If they would refuse refunds from the start, nobody would send them money anymore.
However, I'll also order a few 25MH units, it will be a gamble I know...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Searing on January 06, 2014, 12:03:54 PM
Even a refund still doesn't prove much.
Like any pyramid scheme, you should allways pay the first members something to attract new victims.
If they would refuse refunds from the start, nobody would send them money anymore.
However, I'll also order a few 25MH units, it will be a gamble I know...

well i ordered the small 5m unit or paid the 1/3 via paypal cc option *use this always for fraud* and American Express card..called up amex folks and they say up to 60 days on a dispute (ie not getting anything) ...it is likely from what I heard from at BFL you could get it longer then that but you have to at least tell them their is a problem in 60 days...so that is my take on all this...a) got 45 days to 60 days to yank money  b) if i do go thru with this it will be with $$ i can afford to lose ie massive junk in attic sale c) if they do pull a BFL and ship wayyyyyy late say Fall ...well at least LTC is linear (knock wood)

or course the above is all 'brass and shiney denial...so I can buy a pretty 2.2k toy ......but then again the way asic btc miners are going up in price and such ....I'm likely not to buy any of them again ...so moving on to litecoin asic (such an asic slut I am..no loyalty)

anyway my logic on this ...will probably change to "punt" unless some major info/progess within the next 45 to 60 days

my 2c worth
Searing
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 06, 2014, 12:29:14 PM
This is such an obvious and poorly executed scam.  All the users in this thread that are pro alpha technologies and claim to have made orders have very few posts.  This leads me to believe that they are in fact being used by alpha technologies themselves.  If this is not the case then I urge these new forum members who claim to have pre ordered loads of systems to show us other forums where they are more established members with the same names.   You would have to be a fool to pre order and judging by the intelligence of their writing I am pretty certain they are just bullshit forum members created by alpha technologies to lure in victims.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: simiane on January 06, 2014, 12:34:43 PM
I ordered. I'm elsewhere on this forum and have been for a while.
Is it a scam? Who knows, but I took a punt with some crypto and I know others who have also.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tfbpa on January 06, 2014, 12:58:30 PM
This is such an obvious and poorly executed scam.  All the users in this thread that are pro alpha technologies and claim to have made orders have very few posts.  This leads me to believe that they are in fact being used by alpha technologies themselves.  If this is not the case then I urge these new forum members who claim to have pre ordered loads of systems to show us other forums where they are more established members with the same names.   You would have to be a fool to pre order and judging by the intelligence of their writing I am pretty certain they are just bullshit forum members created by alpha technologies to lure in victims.

Although you are free to think whatever you want, don't you dare call me a bullshit forum member created by alpha technologies, that is just not done.

I am in no way associated with them, besides having pre-ordered their product.

It is you in fact who seems rather un-intelligent by calling others you don't know fools and "knowing" this is an obvious and poorly executed scam.

I am well aware that I might loose 810 GBP and even the remaining 1890 GBP, it is a risk I am willing to take.

Now leave me be and I will do the same.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 06, 2014, 01:09:42 PM
This is such an obvious and poorly executed scam.  All the users in this thread that are pro alpha technologies and claim to have made orders have very few posts.  This leads me to believe that they are in fact being used by alpha technologies themselves.  If this is not the case then I urge these new forum members who claim to have pre ordered loads of systems to show us other forums where they are more established members with the same names.   You would have to be a fool to pre order and judging by the intelligence of their writing I am pretty certain they are just bullshit forum members created by alpha technologies to lure in victims.

Although you are free to think whatever you want, don't you dare call me a bullshit forum member created by alpha technologies, that is just not done.

I am in no way associated with them, besides having pre-ordered their product.

It is you in fact who seems rather un-intelligent by calling others you don't know fools and "knowing" this is an obvious and poorly executed scam.

I am well aware that I might loose 810 GBP and even the remaining 1890 GBP, it is a risk I am willing to take.

Now leave me be and I will do the same.

No need to get upset, sorry to call you a fool.  I recommend requesting a refund. Just trying to help.  Roulette at the casino has much better odds then this.   (or maybe I touched a nerve because you do work for alpha technologies  :P )
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 06, 2014, 01:30:34 PM
What we bought is a lottery ticket which money we could afford to lose.
We're having fun, and maybe maybe we'll end up as part of history as the first scrypt asic miners  ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 01:58:23 PM
Everyone seems to compare Alpha to BFL, but I think Alpha bears some resemblance to kncminer. Why no one compares them to knc (knc didn't even have an office at the beginning)?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 01:59:00 PM
Just as a little sidenote, if you are paying in coin the value in FIAT is not important for your ROI calculations, you have to end up with more coins than you spent, not just more $$$ - alot of ppl tend to forget that.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 06, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
This is such an obvious and poorly executed scam.  All the users in this thread that are pro alpha technologies and claim to have made orders have very few posts.  This leads me to believe that they are in fact being used by alpha technologies themselves.  If this is not the case then I urge these new forum members who claim to have pre ordered loads of systems to show us other forums where they are more established members with the same names.   You would have to be a fool to pre order and judging by the intelligence of their writing I am pretty certain they are just bullshit forum members created by alpha technologies to lure in victims.

Pretty offensive to call me a fool, but thank you for calling my writing intelligent (and it's not even my native language). I'm sorry, but yes, some people in their right mind did come to a different conclusion than you did.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jonnymander on January 06, 2014, 02:15:30 PM
One thing for sure this is going to be interesting.

Used PP and my card provider has 120 day period where chargeback can be issued. It's a gamble, let's see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 02:16:23 PM
[...]

Thanks to http://alphat.emux.fr/ we can have some insight to the orders, although many are fake, what we can take away are the order numbers. The orders started with number 4812 and is now minimum at order number 7932, which I personally definitely believe as my order number for 2 Vipers from 24 hours ago is also in the 7xxx. This means that a minimum of 3120 orders are placed. Now lets crack some numbers.

- First lets say that every order is only one small Viper, this means that he got 3120 x 405 GBP = 1,263,600 GPB in his bank account as deposits alone already. Since most businesses on the Internet are done in USD, lets convert that deposit into USD, which makes 2,074,280 USD. Yes, this is more than 2 Million USD as deposits which are already in his bank account, if you take the bare minimum possible amount of orders.

- Above is the bare minimum and I would like to crunch a few more numbers, which are more realistic in my opinion and still below what it is in reality, IMHO.

75% of the orders are for the small Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 small Vipers
25% of the orders are for the big Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 big Vipers

This comes down to 3120 x 0.75 x 1.25 x 405 GPB = 1,184,625 GBP for the small Vipers
and 3120 x 0.25 x 1.25 x 1,635 GPB = 1.594,125 for the big vipers

This in total in GBP for DEPOSITS only is: 2,778,750, which in USD total to 4,561,480 in DEPOSITS

Some knowledgeable persons have suggested that it will take approximately 5 Million USD to develop Scrypt ASIC miners. Well, Alpha Technologies now most likely already has that money in the bank account.
[...]

Wonderful calculations. Just one addition. In your calculations you assume that every order number exists. This may or may not be the case. I can't be 100% sure, but it does not appear to be the case. Of course, if so, Alpha-t does has less funds than you estimated.

The argument: the last digits of order numbers should follow a uniform distribution. Basically, one would expect just about the same number of each end digit in a sample. We have a sample, namely the order list. I took the current one (with 130 entries). This is the distribution of end numbers:

0: 13
1: 16
2: 12
3: 16
4: 17
5: 17
6: 13
7:  12
8:  7
9:  7

There do seem to be few eights and nines. What is the chance that in any sample of n=130, there are at most 7 of any two end digits?
Without running you through the calculations step by step, here's the intuition behind them: in order to get 7 eights and nines, one needs 116 other numbers (with a chance of 0.8 each) and 7 eights and 7 nines (with a chance of 0.1 each). Those 7 eights and 7 nines can appear in the first 14 entries of the sample, or in any other combination of locations. All combinations of 7 eights and nines in the sample should be added up. Furthermore, if there had been not 7 but 6 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0 eights or nines, I would also be suspicious, so I have to calculate the chance that at most 7 eights and 7 nines appear in the sample. Finally, we are focussing on eights and nines, but that could have been any other number with a low frequency of end digits, so I have to take into account that it could be any number that would have aroused my suspicion. The math:

P(Exactly 7 eights and 7 nines) = 0.8^116 * 0.1^7 * 0.1^7 * (14!/7!7!) * (130!/116!*14!) = 0.000430202
P(less than 7 eights and 7 nines) = (a lot of similar calculations!) = 0.0009
P(at most 7 eights and nines) = sum of the above chances = 0.0013
P(at most 7 of any two end digits) = (10!/8!2!) * P(at most 7 eights and nines) = 45 * 0.0013 = .06 = 6%

So there is an 6% chance that any sample of 130 out of a uniform distribution of end numbers contains at most 7 of any two end digits.
Seems a littly low!

Conclusion: there is a fair chance that Alpha-t has less orders than the order number (minus 4811) suggests.

That math made my brain hurt ;D Nice work. If this is true I can't fathom any reason for doing it apart from pumping up the figures to give the impression of more orders than have actually been taken. Unless someone can point me to a another reason. Also why would they start at 4xxx?

I think its great we're coming together to really dig into what is going on here. But without full and transparent disclosure from Alpha there is going to be a lot of speculation and doubt. There are a few brand new forum members (less than a week) who are extremely vocal in Alpha's defense. This only adds to my suspicions. This thread has dug up a lot of questions that need to be answered.

My opinion for what its worth. I'm hugely concerned to find 23 and 26  year old green horns at the head of this company. It's a concern that the person with the most business experience, presumably their father resigned as a director and no one of similar experience replaced him. Its a major concern that we, as a community had to dig most of the information on this thread out of google. Its a huge concern that they were willing to put their names and personal details on their presumably legitimate accountancy site but have pretty much ignored our calls for any clarification as to who is involved with Alpha.

Of less concern is their crappy office, although I do feel troubled by the way they IMHO have tried to misrepresent it. Telling us they are moving into new premises, paying for a nice big sign, taking a close cropped photo to try to sell it as something impressive. Then through internet sleuthing and a diligent forum member we learn its the derelict takeaway shop they own next door. I would have had more respect if they had said they were working from a back room at their accountancy firm.
We also have to assume, until told otherwise, that your pre-order money will go into refurbishing this place.

The VAT issue is another concern. How can accountants not get this right? What other financial miscalculations have they made? This has bumped the price up by 20% for a lot of people. More for some. I find it hard to believe this was just a clerical error as the information was repeated in a statement issued by their CEO on 25th Dec

"Viper Device 25 Mh/s: 600watts (or below) £5450 (full cost)          GPU Rig 25 Mh/s: 10,000 watts (40 GPU's @ 250watts  x 625 Kh/s)   £12,000 (excl. other costs)

Viper Device 5Mh/s: 100watts (or below) £1350 (full cost)              GPU Rig 5Mh/s: 2,000watts (8 GPU's @ 250 watts x 625 Kh/s)  £2,400 (excl. other costs)"


Notice he states "full cost" You would have thought with two accountants and one engineer in the family somebody would have caught this before releasing it twice. But yet again it was this community that dug it out.

I could go on but there has been more than enough info uncovered in this thread to convince me not to invest at this time. In a court of law I would call it reasonable doubt. Its a shame, as I had signed up for their newsletter a while back and was hopeful they would deliver. But the shambolic way they have handled this thread has completely turned me off.

Well I've said my piece. Its up to you to come to your own conclusions. Good luck either way. Personally, I would urge caution. The last thing this community needs is another BFL, Payonix or TerraHash.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 02:24:52 PM
I think its great we're coming together to really dig into what is going on here. But without full and transparent disclosure from Alpha there is going to be a lot of speculation and doubt. There are a few brand new forum members (less than a week) who are extremely vocal in Alpha's defense. This only adds to my suspicions. This thread has dug up a lot of questions that need to be answered.

Valid point and can't be stressed enough, most heavy defender AND trolls are pretty new members, everyone should think for themself...

"Viper Device 25 Mh/s: 600watts (or below) £5450 (full cost)          GPU Rig 25 Mh/s: 10,000 watts (40 GPU's @ 250watts  x 625 Kh/s)   £12,000 (excl. other costs)

Viper Device 5Mh/s: 100watts (or below) £1350 (full cost)              GPU Rig 5Mh/s: 2,000watts (8 GPU's @ 250 watts x 625 Kh/s)  £2,400 (excl. other costs)"


Notice he states "full cost" You would have thought with two accountants and one engineer in the family somebody would have caught this before releasing it twice. But yet again it was this community that dug it out.
This could in theory work if you forfeit the usual margin an asic comes with but be realistic, who would? Given that they want to produce in 28 nm (one of the most advanced technoly publicly available) it's highly unlikely that this price will stick to the end, i think it was mentioned somehwere that those are rough estimates - not the final price.

It all comes down to trust, risk and the size of your balls (sorry gals ^^), if you believe that this is legit, you can afford to loose what you are investing and dare to take this leap it MIGHT pay off...or just vanish into thin air.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 02:31:36 PM
Namiki, I would also add £100-200 (maybe more) delivery costs to the price of a Viper.

I'm not sure about other countries, but in Finland you would pay VAT also for the delivery costs (£1350 + £200)*1.24 = £1922. So it's not that cheap if you do all the math!

For comparison, the delivery of a Terraminer IV would cost $580.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 06, 2014, 02:51:23 PM
[...]

Thanks to http://alphat.emux.fr/ we can have some insight to the orders, although many are fake, what we can take away are the order numbers. The orders started with number 4812 and is now minimum at order number 7932, which I personally definitely believe as my order number for 2 Vipers from 24 hours ago is also in the 7xxx. This means that a minimum of 3120 orders are placed. Now lets crack some numbers.

- First lets say that every order is only one small Viper, this means that he got 3120 x 405 GBP = 1,263,600 GPB in his bank account as deposits alone already. Since most businesses on the Internet are done in USD, lets convert that deposit into USD, which makes 2,074,280 USD. Yes, this is more than 2 Million USD as deposits which are already in his bank account, if you take the bare minimum possible amount of orders.

- Above is the bare minimum and I would like to crunch a few more numbers, which are more realistic in my opinion and still below what it is in reality, IMHO.

75% of the orders are for the small Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 small Vipers
25% of the orders are for the big Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 big Vipers

This comes down to 3120 x 0.75 x 1.25 x 405 GPB = 1,184,625 GBP for the small Vipers
and 3120 x 0.25 x 1.25 x 1,635 GPB = 1.594,125 for the big vipers

This in total in GBP for DEPOSITS only is: 2,778,750, which in USD total to 4,561,480 in DEPOSITS

Some knowledgeable persons have suggested that it will take approximately 5 Million USD to develop Scrypt ASIC miners. Well, Alpha Technologies now most likely already has that money in the bank account.
[...]

Wonderful calculations. Just one addition. In your calculations you assume that every order number exists. This may or may not be the case. I can't be 100% sure, but it does not appear to be the case. Of course, if so, Alpha-t does has less funds than you estimated.

The argument: the last digits of order numbers should follow a uniform distribution. Basically, one would expect just about the same number of each end digit in a sample. We have a sample, namely the order list. I took the current one (with 130 entries). This is the distribution of end numbers:

0: 13
1: 16
2: 12
3: 16
4: 17
5: 17
6: 13
7:  12
8:  7
9:  7

There do seem to be few eights and nines. What is the chance that in any sample of n=130, there are at most 7 of any two end digits?
Without running you through the calculations step by step, here's the intuition behind them: in order to get 7 eights and nines, one needs 116 other numbers (with a chance of 0.8 each) and 7 eights and 7 nines (with a chance of 0.1 each). Those 7 eights and 7 nines can appear in the first 14 entries of the sample, or in any other combination of locations. All combinations of 7 eights and nines in the sample should be added up. Furthermore, if there had been not 7 but 6 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0 eights or nines, I would also be suspicious, so I have to calculate the chance that at most 7 eights and 7 nines appear in the sample. Finally, we are focussing on eights and nines, but that could have been any other number with a low frequency of end digits, so I have to take into account that it could be any number that would have aroused my suspicion. The math:

P(Exactly 7 eights and 7 nines) = 0.8^116 * 0.1^7 * 0.1^7 * (14!/7!7!) * (130!/116!*14!) = 0.000430202
P(less than 7 eights and 7 nines) = (a lot of similar calculations!) = 0.0009
P(at most 7 eights and nines) = sum of the above chances = 0.0013
P(at most 7 of any two end digits) = (10!/8!2!) * P(at most 7 eights and nines) = 45 * 0.0013 = .06 = 6%

So there is an 6% chance that any sample of 130 out of a uniform distribution of end numbers contains at most 7 of any two end digits.
Seems a littly low!

Conclusion: there is a fair chance that Alpha-t has less orders than the order number (minus 4811) suggests.

That math made my brain hurt ;D Nice work. If this is true I can't fathom any reason for doing it apart from pumping up the figures to give the impression of more orders than have actually been taken. Unless someone can point me to a another reason. Also why would they start at 4xxx?

I think its great we're coming together to really dig into what is going on here. But without full and transparent disclosure from Alpha there is going to be a lot of speculation and doubt. There are a few brand new forum members (less than a week) who are extremely vocal in Alpha's defense. This only adds to my suspicions. This thread has dug up a lot of questions that need to be answered.

My opinion for what its worth. I'm hugely concerned to find 23 and 26  year old green horns at the head of this company. It's a concern that the person with the most business experience, presumably their father resigned as a director and no one of similar experience replaced him. Its a major concern that we, as a community had to dig most of the information on this thread out of google. Its a huge concern that they were willing to put their names and personal details on their presumably legitimate accountancy site but have pretty much ignored our calls for any clarification as to who is involved with Alpha.

Of less concern is their crappy office, although I do feel troubled by the way they IMHO have tried to misrepresent it. Telling us they are moving into new premises, paying for a nice big sign, taking a close cropped photo to try to sell it as something impressive. Then through internet sleuthing and a diligent forum member we learn its the derelict takeaway shop they own next door. I would have had more respect if they had said they were working from a back room at their accountancy firm.
We also have to assume, until told otherwise, that your pre-order money will go into refurbishing this place.

The VAT issue is another concern. How can accountants not get this right? What other financial miscalculations have they made? This has bumped the price up by 20% for a lot of people. More for some. I find it hard to believe this was just a clerical error as the information was repeated in a statement issued by their CEO on 25th Dec

"Viper Device 25 Mh/s: 600watts (or below) £5450 (full cost)          GPU Rig 25 Mh/s: 10,000 watts (40 GPU's @ 250watts  x 625 Kh/s)   £12,000 (excl. other costs)

Viper Device 5Mh/s: 100watts (or below) £1350 (full cost)              GPU Rig 5Mh/s: 2,000watts (8 GPU's @ 250 watts x 625 Kh/s)  £2,400 (excl. other costs)"


Notice he states "full cost" You would have thought with two accountants and one engineer in the family somebody would have caught this before releasing it twice. But yet again it was this community that dug it out.

I could go on but there has been more than enough info uncovered in this thread to convince me not to invest at this time. In a court of law I would call it reasonable doubt. Its a shame, as I had signed up for their newsletter a while back and was hopeful they would deliver. But the shambolic way they have handled this thread has completely turned me off.

Well I've said my piece. Its up to you to come to your own conclusions. Good luck either way. Personally, I would urge caution. The last thing this community needs is another BFL, Payonix or TerraHash.

Thanks for calling us all fakes when you have 20 posts and are the biggest mouth here. Just because their 'father' resigned from director does not mean he isnt part of it... Im sure i silenced you in my last post.

It is just a shame to see certain people e.g. SY Admin, sides with jasinlee and against alpha-t. And im sure the same with Retro who is an obvious ALT account of Jasin i presume... I have ordered a single 5Mh/s device. Lets see what happens

But they have far more legitimacy than other hidden project on this forum. And being partners with dexcel designs seals that.

Issue is time of delivery not legitimacy.

And BTW. What  your quoting was a comparison update i think, and VAT and SHIPPing was not added to the gpu rig.. It was just a comparison. On products page vat is mentioned... And glad they corrected everything before pre-orders started.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 02:54:42 PM
I sided with no one, i voice doubts in both threads and moderate both threads to keep it civil, alphas numbers are just more unrealistic than other's - might be because they love to share but that's kinda against human nature  ;D

They might both still be a scam or legit, only time will tell since there is no way you can proof an asic without producing one and usually no startup can produce one without preorder money.

But again, 8 posts junior member...sorry but it seriously paints a picture.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 03:01:32 PM
Is this some kind of a mass paranoia, everyone sees alpha's (aka KGB) agents everywhere  ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 03:04:04 PM
This is business and it's not the first time new user troll or confirm certain products - we are on the lookout - always.

It's all about the money, simple as that - asics invole millions, ppl have no real scruples when that much money is involved.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 03:10:05 PM
This is business and it's not the first time new user troll or confirm certain products - we are on the lookout - always.

It's all about the money, simple as that - asics invole millions, ppl have no real scruples when that much money is involved.

Sure, but in my opinion, it would be best to avoid claiming that someone is something unless there is a concrete proof. The basic rule of Internet is trust no one. Everyone should draw their own conclusions.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 03:13:21 PM
[...]

Thanks to http://alphat.emux.fr/ we can have some insight to the orders, although many are fake, what we can take away are the order numbers. The orders started with number 4812 and is now minimum at order number 7932, which I personally definitely believe as my order number for 2 Vipers from 24 hours ago is also in the 7xxx. This means that a minimum of 3120 orders are placed. Now lets crack some numbers.

- First lets say that every order is only one small Viper, this means that he got 3120 x 405 GBP = 1,263,600 GPB in his bank account as deposits alone already. Since most businesses on the Internet are done in USD, lets convert that deposit into USD, which makes 2,074,280 USD. Yes, this is more than 2 Million USD as deposits which are already in his bank account, if you take the bare minimum possible amount of orders.

- Above is the bare minimum and I would like to crunch a few more numbers, which are more realistic in my opinion and still below what it is in reality, IMHO.

75% of the orders are for the small Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 small Vipers
25% of the orders are for the big Viper and 25% of those orders are for 2 big Vipers

This comes down to 3120 x 0.75 x 1.25 x 405 GPB = 1,184,625 GBP for the small Vipers
and 3120 x 0.25 x 1.25 x 1,635 GPB = 1.594,125 for the big vipers

This in total in GBP for DEPOSITS only is: 2,778,750, which in USD total to 4,561,480 in DEPOSITS

Some knowledgeable persons have suggested that it will take approximately 5 Million USD to develop Scrypt ASIC miners. Well, Alpha Technologies now most likely already has that money in the bank account.
[...]

Wonderful calculations. Just one addition. In your calculations you assume that every order number exists. This may or may not be the case. I can't be 100% sure, but it does not appear to be the case. Of course, if so, Alpha-t does has less funds than you estimated.

The argument: the last digits of order numbers should follow a uniform distribution. Basically, one would expect just about the same number of each end digit in a sample. We have a sample, namely the order list. I took the current one (with 130 entries). This is the distribution of end numbers:

0: 13
1: 16
2: 12
3: 16
4: 17
5: 17
6: 13
7:  12
8:  7
9:  7

There do seem to be few eights and nines. What is the chance that in any sample of n=130, there are at most 7 of any two end digits?
Without running you through the calculations step by step, here's the intuition behind them: in order to get 7 eights and nines, one needs 116 other numbers (with a chance of 0.8 each) and 7 eights and 7 nines (with a chance of 0.1 each). Those 7 eights and 7 nines can appear in the first 14 entries of the sample, or in any other combination of locations. All combinations of 7 eights and nines in the sample should be added up. Furthermore, if there had been not 7 but 6 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0 eights or nines, I would also be suspicious, so I have to calculate the chance that at most 7 eights and 7 nines appear in the sample. Finally, we are focussing on eights and nines, but that could have been any other number with a low frequency of end digits, so I have to take into account that it could be any number that would have aroused my suspicion. The math:

P(Exactly 7 eights and 7 nines) = 0.8^116 * 0.1^7 * 0.1^7 * (14!/7!7!) * (130!/116!*14!) = 0.000430202
P(less than 7 eights and 7 nines) = (a lot of similar calculations!) = 0.0009
P(at most 7 eights and nines) = sum of the above chances = 0.0013
P(at most 7 of any two end digits) = (10!/8!2!) * P(at most 7 eights and nines) = 45 * 0.0013 = .06 = 6%

So there is an 6% chance that any sample of 130 out of a uniform distribution of end numbers contains at most 7 of any two end digits.
Seems a littly low!

Conclusion: there is a fair chance that Alpha-t has less orders than the order number (minus 4811) suggests.

That math made my brain hurt ;D Nice work. If this is true I can't fathom any reason for doing it apart from pumping up the figures to give the impression of more orders than have actually been taken. Unless someone can point me to a another reason. Also why would they start at 4xxx?

I think its great we're coming together to really dig into what is going on here. But without full and transparent disclosure from Alpha there is going to be a lot of speculation and doubt. There are a few brand new forum members (less than a week) who are extremely vocal in Alpha's defense. This only adds to my suspicions. This thread has dug up a lot of questions that need to be answered.

My opinion for what its worth. I'm hugely concerned to find 23 and 26  year old green horns at the head of this company. It's a concern that the person with the most business experience, presumably their father resigned as a director and no one of similar experience replaced him. Its a major concern that we, as a community had to dig most of the information on this thread out of google. Its a huge concern that they were willing to put their names and personal details on their presumably legitimate accountancy site but have pretty much ignored our calls for any clarification as to who is involved with Alpha.

Of less concern is their crappy office, although I do feel troubled by the way they IMHO have tried to misrepresent it. Telling us they are moving into new premises, paying for a nice big sign, taking a close cropped photo to try to sell it as something impressive. Then through internet sleuthing and a diligent forum member we learn its the derelict takeaway shop they own next door. I would have had more respect if they had said they were working from a back room at their accountancy firm.
We also have to assume, until told otherwise, that your pre-order money will go into refurbishing this place.

The VAT issue is another concern. How can accountants not get this right? What other financial miscalculations have they made? This has bumped the price up by 20% for a lot of people. More for some. I find it hard to believe this was just a clerical error as the information was repeated in a statement issued by their CEO on 25th Dec

"Viper Device 25 Mh/s: 600watts (or below) £5450 (full cost)          GPU Rig 25 Mh/s: 10,000 watts (40 GPU's @ 250watts  x 625 Kh/s)   £12,000 (excl. other costs)

Viper Device 5Mh/s: 100watts (or below) £1350 (full cost)              GPU Rig 5Mh/s: 2,000watts (8 GPU's @ 250 watts x 625 Kh/s)  £2,400 (excl. other costs)"


Notice he states "full cost" You would have thought with two accountants and one engineer in the family somebody would have caught this before releasing it twice. But yet again it was this community that dug it out.

I could go on but there has been more than enough info uncovered in this thread to convince me not to invest at this time. In a court of law I would call it reasonable doubt. Its a shame, as I had signed up for their newsletter a while back and was hopeful they would deliver. But the shambolic way they have handled this thread has completely turned me off.

Well I've said my piece. Its up to you to come to your own conclusions. Good luck either way. Personally, I would urge caution. The last thing this community needs is another BFL, Payonix or TerraHash.

Thanks for calling us all fakes when you have 20 posts and are the biggest mouth here. Just because their 'father' resigned from director does not mean he isnt part of it... Im sure i silenced you in my last post.

It is just a shame to see certain people e.g. SY Admin, sides with jasinlee and against alpha-t. And im sure the same with Retro who is an obvious ALT account of Jasin i presume... I have ordered a single 5Mh/s device. Lets see what happens

But they have far more legitimacy than other hidden project on this forum. And being partners with dexcel designs seals that.

Issue is time of delivery not legitimacy.

And BTW. What  your quoting was a comparison update i think, and VAT and SHIPPing was not added to the gpu rig.. It was just a comparison. On products page vat is mentioned... And glad they corrected everything before pre-orders started.

I rest my case.

This guy is the biggest shill here. If you look at my profile you'll see I've been here since April. You on the other hand have been here from 2nd of Jan. You have been rude and constantly insulting and rabidly defensive of ALpha technologies.  I have nothing more to say to you. I'm sure the rest of the community can make up their own minds as to the worth of your comments.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 03:18:26 PM
I rest my case.

This guy is the biggest shill here. If you look at my profile you'll see I've been here since April. You on the other hand have been here from 6th of Jan. You have been rude and constantly insulting and rabidly defensive of ALpha technologies.  I have nothing more to say to you. I'm sure the rest of the community can make up their own minds as to the worth of your comments.

Smartest thing you can do at a certain point, there is just no logic sometimes ^^
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 03:20:53 PM
This is business and it's not the first time new user troll or confirm certain products - we are on the lookout - always.

It's all about the money, simple as that - asics invole millions, ppl have no real scruples when that much money is involved.

Sure, but in my opinion, it would be best to avoid claiming that someone is something unless there is a concrete proof. The basic rule of Internet is trust no one. Everyone should draw their own conclusions.

I am allowed to voice my thoughts, as to a certain degree is everyone (no shittalk, name calling, trolling or spamming) if you don't like it you are free to counter argue  8) but since everything here is speculations to a certain degree proofing a point and being correct is very hard ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: boukehj on January 06, 2014, 03:37:50 PM
[...]

Regarding your calculations, you make a valid argument, but I'm surprised at the very low estimate you apparently use for electricity costs. Here in the Netherlands, I pay EUR 0.2/kWh or $0.272 / kWh. A 1500 watt rig (assuming no cooling costs) would cost me EUR 216 per month in electricity. I.e., if the difficulty rises to 10500, with current exchange rates, I would exactly break-even. If you can have a positive return at a difficulty of 35000 (and added cooling power of 1500), you must be paying around $0.04/kWh. Wow!
My point is not just that the calculation for my situation is very different, but there is another thing: as difficulty rises above 10k, GPU miners with high electricity costs will start to drop off, lowering the increase in network hash rate and, hence, difficulty. Above a difficulty of 35k, you would drop off as well, while it would still pay to have a 100 watt device running.
As a minor point: my current out-of-pocket expense for one 5MH/s device is only 30% (you assume that all money is paid instantly).

The other red flags you raise seem fair points. Accountants should not have made the VAT mistake and there are some young guns at the head of the company!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 03:41:43 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 03:45:23 PM
As a minor point: my current out-of-pocket expense for one 5MH/s device is only 30% (you assume that all money is paid instantly).

The rest of the money is tied and cannot be used for anything else at least for 8-10 weeks before the shipping date.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 03:49:20 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

No startup ever tried to start in 28 nm afaik, KNC started in 65nm and released a whole series before the attempted that one and had already a working design but KNC had scammer scammer posts too, i think no asic developer was trusted before they finally released a product :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on January 06, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
If you cannot handle the risk (mentally or financially) just do not order from a startup, plain and simple. Ordering from any startup is a crapshoot, you place your bets and take your chances.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 03:55:07 PM
If you cannot handle the risk (mentally or financially) just do not order from a startup, plain and simple. Ordering from any startup is a crapshoot, you place your bets and take your chances.
+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 06, 2014, 03:55:46 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

KNC are associated with ORSoc (http://orsoc.se/) who have an established track record in ASIC design. Alpha are with Dexcel, and while their website is replete with FPGA, there is almost no mention of ASIC experience.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 03:56:23 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

No startup ever tried to start in 28 nm afaik, KNC started in 65nm and released a whole series before the attempted that one and had already a working design but KNC had scammer scammer posts too, i think no asic developer was trusted before they finally released a product :)

28 nm tech. process appears to be a standard and other asic developers are using it (cointerra, hashfast, both April batches).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

No startup ever tried to start in 28 nm afaik, KNC started in 65nm and released a whole series before the attempted that one and had already a working design but KNC had scammer scammer posts too, i think no asic developer was trusted before they finally released a product :)

28 nm tech. process appears to be a standard and other asic developers are using it (cointerra, hashfast, both April batches).

I wouldn't really call btc asic companies a startup anymore, the concept is proven and already working. Avalon even went for 110 nm and the next asic after that took a year or so to be released.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

No startup ever tried to start in 28 nm afaik, KNC started in 65nm and released a whole series before the attempted that one and had already a working design but KNC had scammer scammer posts too, i think no asic developer was trusted before they finally released a product :)

Yes I too initially doubted KNC. But the main difference between them and Alpha and the thing that eventually won me over was KNC's openness. Their williness to reveal who they were. A full total refund policy up until the day of shipment and the open day they had BEFORE pre-ordering. None of which have been done by Alpha.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 04:08:26 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

KNC are associated with ORSoc (http://orsoc.se/) who have an established track record in ASIC design. Alpha are with Dexcel, and while their website is replete with FPGA, there is almost no mention of ASIC experience.

Dexcel design lists Fpga to structured ASIC transitions as one of their services. Isn't it exactly what is going to be done here?

@retro and Sy thanks for explaining, these are all fair points.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 06, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
Dexcel design lists Fpga to structured ASIC transitions as one of their services. Isn't it exactly what is going to be done here?

Structured ASIC is essentially a hardwired FPGA for volume production. I don't think its what Alpha have in mind here. Their requirement for 128MBit of RAM is well beyond what is generally available on FPGA. It would certainly reduce the NRE significantly, but also greatly increase the unit cost of the chips. More likely is a standard cell ASIC IMHO. A good question to put to the Alpha PR guy though.

PS A quick google does not come up with anything significant for Structured Asic and GlobalFoundries, which kinda makes sense as these are touted by the FPGA manufacturers (Altera, Xilinx) and not the generic foundries. There is also eASIC who have been involved with Bitcoin ASIC AFAIR, but Alpha have stated they are using GlobalFoundires,
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 06, 2014, 04:23:56 PM
I am interested to know what makes Alpha different from KNC in the beginning. They were both taking preorders, they both have/had quite short development cycle. Can these two companies be compared with each other at the start-up phase?

KNC are associated with ORSoc (https://litecointalk.org/) who have an established track record in ASIC design. Alpha are with Dexcel, and while their website is replete with FPGA, there is almost no mention of ASIC experience.

Just found this https://twitter.com/DexcelDesigns/status/416473096900464640/photo/1. Seems Dexcel Kind of recruit quite a lot (viewing their twitter history, and google searches)... 50+ employees it says on linkedin.. and just found this http://www.bullhornreach.com/job/877020_physical-design-engineer-asic-backend-engineer-stockholm-sweden. Why they need ASIC engineer in stockholm?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 04:28:27 PM
Thanks kramble! I'll send an email to Alpha. Nevertheless, whatever their answer will be it won't bring any confidence. If they answer that it will be a structured ASIC one could seriously doubt their product specs. On the other hand dexcel does not seem to have any experience in designing cell asic which puts a huge question mark on their products.

Anyway let's wait for an answer.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 06, 2014, 04:34:06 PM
i have some juicy information guys, found one of the directors (the chartered accountant).. on LINKEDIN http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mohammed-jafar-akram/86/b3b/aba  . ARABIC? not INDIAN?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 06, 2014, 04:34:38 PM
Just found this https://twitter.com/DexcelDesigns/status/416473096900464640/photo/1. Seems Dexcel Kind of recruit quite a lot (viewing their twitter history, and google searches)... 50+ employees it says on linkedin.. and just found this http://www.bullhornreach.com/job/877020_physical-design-engineer-asic-backend-engineer-stockholm-sweden. Why they need ASIC engineer in stockholm?

I'm not sure of the relevance of the first link (just a photo at some conference?). The second one is a recruitment ad for an ASIC engineer to work at the client's premises in Stockholm. So they are clearly looking to work with ASIC, whether they have much current experience remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 06, 2014, 04:41:42 PM
i have some juicy information guys, found one of the directors (the chartered accountant).. on LINKEDIN http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mohammed-jafar-akram/86/b3b/aba  . ARABIC? not INDIAN?

And this guy was porn ehm born in 1948?  8)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 06, 2014, 04:45:46 PM
NO. They are different people. DO YOU NOT READ PREVIOUS posts? it is 2 acccountant, and 1 engineer... all AKRAM ASIC FAMILY
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 04:46:27 PM
You nervous nellies ...

Thanks!

Either they deliver or they do not. Time will tell.

I can agree on that!

Anyway the email is sent!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 06, 2014, 04:48:22 PM
okay enough stalking.. they are legitimate human beings.. now we just see if them and dexcel ship on time.. i hope by june/july.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 06, 2014, 04:48:34 PM
Can one of the forum moderators check the IP addresses of the new forum members in this thread to see if they are the same or similar?  If they are all from the same place or if they are all using an IP address hiding program then this will be another massive red flag.  I skydive professionally and do risk assessments for a living, this Alpha technology company is far too risky for me and I love calculated risks.  This is a scam and I am 99.999999% sure of this.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 06, 2014, 04:58:42 PM
[...]

Regarding your calculations, you make a valid argument, but I'm surprised at the very low estimate you apparently use for electricity costs. Here in the Netherlands, I pay EUR 0.2/kWh or $0.272 / kWh. A 1500 watt rig (assuming no cooling costs) would cost me EUR 216 per month in electricity. I.e., if the difficulty rises to 10500, with current exchange rates, I would exactly break-even. If you can have a positive return at a difficulty of 35000 (and added cooling power of 1500), you must be paying around $0.04/kWh. Wow!
My point is not just that the calculation for my situation is very different, but there is another thing: as difficulty rises above 10k, GPU miners with high electricity costs will start to drop off, lowering the increase in network hash rate and, hence, difficulty. Above a difficulty of 35k, you would drop off as well, while it would still pay to have a 100 watt device running.
As a minor point: my current out-of-pocket expense for one 5MH/s device is only 30% (you assume that all money is paid instantly).

The other red flags you raise seem fair points. Accountants should not have made the VAT mistake and there are some young guns at the head of the company!

I have deducted 50 LTC for Electricity costs over the year and have distributed them evenly, however I have not taken into account any cooling as I personally do not need to use any. Assuming everything is running 24/7 at full power (which will never happen) $1500 over the year would cover costs for a 5 GPU mining rig (I pay about £80 a month extra since I built my rig). This is without taking into account any rise in LTC value over the coming year.

Another thing is that you claim to have invested only 30% into nothing material as of yet but you forget that in order to have the product you have to pay the rest + delivery. So it would make sense to invest them immediately and get the return immediately rather than wait 3-6 months (very likely that it will be much longer or it will never materialise) for any potential return.

Everyone needs to take lessons from the Bitcoin ASIC fiasco. If there is nothing here and now, not only will it not be profitable in the future but it wont break even. Look at all the ASIC hardware going for sale, none of it is on course to break even considering that they promise delivery within 3 months for a product that they have already designed built tested and shipped. Can you imagine how long all that would take Alpha when all they have is a theory? This is if they aren't a scam to begin with.

What you say about difficulty is not true as bitcoin saw no such drop when ASICs were introduced. For LTC it is really important to consider the margin between GPU and ASIC mining and the risk really is not worth any potential reward.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 06, 2014, 06:16:51 PM

Quote
I have deducted 50 LTC for Electricity costs over the year and have distributed them evenly, however I have not taken into account any cooling as I personally do not need to use any. Assuming everything is running 24/7 at full power (which will never happen) $1500 over the year would cover costs for a 5 GPU mining rig (I pay about £80 a month extra since I built my rig). This is without taking into account any rise in LTC value over the coming year.

I don't usually use this sort of expression, but... ROFL!

50 LTC ? Really ? That's (currently) 28.8*50$ = $1440

  o My electricity costs start at $0.33 and peak at $0.45 per kwH, depending on the time of day.
  o Current wattage required for miners = 1870 (according to kill-a-watt)
  o 2/3 of each 24-hour period is at $0.33, 1/3 at $0.44
    -> 16 * 1.87 * $0.33 + 8 * 1.87 * $0.44
    -> ~$16.50 per day
    -> ~$6000 / year

The difference in cost is significant, at least to me.

Quote
Another thing is that you claim to have invested only 30% into nothing material as of yet but you forget that in order to have the product you have to pay the rest + delivery. So it would make sense to invest them immediately and get the return immediately rather than wait 3-6 months (very likely that it will be much longer or it will never materialise) for any potential return.

You're missing the point. This is "play" money. It's money I've already made by investments and I want to try something new. If it turns out ok, then great! If not, well shucks, moving on.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 06, 2014, 06:43:58 PM

Quote
I have deducted 50 LTC for Electricity costs over the year and have distributed them evenly, however I have not taken into account any cooling as I personally do not need to use any. Assuming everything is running 24/7 at full power (which will never happen) $1500 over the year would cover costs for a 5 GPU mining rig (I pay about £80 a month extra since I built my rig). This is without taking into account any rise in LTC value over the coming year.

I don't usually use this sort of expression, but... ROFL!

50 LTC ? Really ? That's (currently) 28.8*50$ = $1440

  o My electricity costs start at $0.33 and peak at $0.45 per kwH, depending on the time of day.
  o Current wattage required for miners = 1870 (according to kill-a-watt)
  o 2/3 of each 24-hour period is at $0.33, 1/3 at $0.44
    -> 16 * 1.87 * $0.33 + 8 * 1.87 * $0.44
    -> ~$16.50 per day
    -> ~$6000 / year

The difference in cost is significant, at least to me.

Quote
Another thing is that you claim to have invested only 30% into nothing material as of yet but you forget that in order to have the product you have to pay the rest + delivery. So it would make sense to invest them immediately and get the return immediately rather than wait 3-6 months (very likely that it will be much longer or it will never materialise) for any potential return.

You're missing the point. This is "play" money. It's money I've already made by investments and I want to try something new. If it turns out ok, then great! If not, well shucks, moving on.

Wow!! You pay A LOT for electricity. In the UK I pay 12p KwH (about 20 cents I would guess).  My bill running 4 MH/s @1500 watts cost me about an extra £4 per day £120 per month on average. I could probably get it lower by switching tariffs and optimising my setup, but its not too bad.   

No offense but I can see why you're so desperate for Asics. Half your earnings goes toward your electricity bill!!
For me the energy savings alone are not large enough to take the risk at this time.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 07:07:09 PM
And this is where i cut in, i already deleted a few posts and i will delete more, this thread is about alpha tech ONLY, i dont care if you think someone is a scam, cheat, stupid or whatever, i will delete those posts and issue warnings as it has happened in the fibonacci thread before.

Read this before you post anything without decent information or arguments  first...
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.msg49158#msg49158
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 06, 2014, 07:08:16 PM
Can one of the forum moderators check the IP addresses of the new forum members in this thread to see if they are the same or similar?  If they are all from the same place or if they are all using an IP address hiding program then this will be another massive red flag.  I skydive professionally and do risk assessments for a living, this Alpha technology company is far too risky for me and I love calculated risks.  This is a scam and I am 99.999999% sure of this.

We can with some work but no, won't happen. And afaik tor users are banned.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 06, 2014, 09:09:03 PM

Wow!! You pay A LOT for electricity. In the UK I pay 12p KwH (about 20 cents I would guess).  My bill running 4 MH/s @1500 watts cost me about an extra £4 per day £120 per month on average. I could probably get it lower by switching tariffs and optimising my setup, but its not too bad.   

No offense but I can see why you're so desperate for Asics. Half your earnings goes toward your electricity bill!!
For me the energy savings alone are not large enough to take the risk at this time.

Well, I offset it as much as I can - I have a 40kwH/day solar system in place which helps out [payoff for that was 7.5 years, and I'm 5 years in] - but that pretty much just covers the existing house (&pool, &pond, &reef-tank) day-to-day needs; not quite, in fact. The energy for the mining is totally funded by the mining itself.

I'm from the UK, and it has occurred to me to ask my parents to locate the miners at their house - I'd just cover their electricity bill en toto, it'd be easier that way and still work out cheaper for me, and they then have no bill. The only downside is that they're 6000 miles away, and not sufficiently technical to help out if things go wrong. I've only recently set up the rig, and I have a stable setup (now), but I'm waiting until there's no problems/smooth running in a month before I consider shipping the machines halfway around the world...

I'm also looking at getting a few FPGA-based miners going (they're sort of a halfway-house in terms of energy) but we'll see. If the ASIC thing works out, I'll be retiring the GPU-based miners anyway (hopefully, given my place in the queue, I'll know that the ASICs work, and I'll be able to sell the GPUs before their price plummets back down as everyone else does the same...)

Anyway, it's all moot until we get the first delivery of a mining unit (or not) from Alpha...


 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 06, 2014, 10:27:43 PM
Mux check some entries, we have had a troll again http://alphat.emux.fr/
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: cezarone on January 06, 2014, 10:42:54 PM
already is almost 4000 orders, you have to count on average 1,5 machines on order, I do not believe that they can achieve so large order.
where is the limit  ???
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 06, 2014, 11:38:18 PM
Alpha's response:


We are doing standard cell custom asic design and we will be using 1T SRAM.

Not a structured ASIC.

Regards

Alpha Technology Team

On 6 Jan 2014 16:43, - <-> wrote:

    Dear Alpha Technology,

    I would like to inquire whether your product, more specifically, an asic chip will be based on structured ASIC or cell ASIC technology concept.

    Thank you!

    Looking forward to your answer.

    Kind regards
   -
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 07, 2014, 01:16:18 AM
Well, that's the right RAM to use. It's basically very fast DRAM (due to the process, it uses 1 transistor rather than 6), so it provides single-cycle random access with a relatively high-density (compared to static RAM).

You don't pay the enormous latency costs of (even DDR-style) SDRAM, and you can pack a lot of it in. Smart choice.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Tejano on January 07, 2014, 01:36:55 AM
While it is neat to see this development and encouraging to see the Litecoin community and ecosystem grow into new directions, I do not think the current Viper lineup is worth the current costs (see link below).  Especially since there are many additional costs that need to be factored in (e.g., transportation, taxes) and of course, the security deposit that could have been used on other investments.

Here's a very detailed, thorough explanation: http://www.ofnumbers.com/2014/01/06/should-you-buy-an-alpha-technology-asic-for-litecoin-mining
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 07, 2014, 02:43:17 AM
I'm sorry, but any analysis that doesn't take into account the energy requirements and concomitant costs is fundamentally flawed. For me at least, the entire reason for going ASIC is the lower energy costs.

I did the maths above, but to summarise, my energy cost for a 4.5MH/sec rig is ~$6000 per year. The 5MH/sec ASIC is 1/18th of that, or ~$330 per year. That's a big difference.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tfbpa on January 07, 2014, 03:14:41 AM
Some very very very rough calculations regarding this issue:

A 5MH/s Viper costs £1620+ which is roughly the same cost as 5 x R9 280X GPU's which would give an average of 700kh each making 3.5 MH/s total.

A viper would use 100w of electricity (remains to be seen!) while the 5 GPU would use a max of 300w each making a total of 1500w. For the 5 x GPU, although unnecessary you might need a cooling unit using a maximum of lets say 1500w.

Considering delivery times for Alpha and difficulty (without taking into consideration other developers and smooth progress from Alpha) I have drafted the following mining calculations:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/yh2j9.png)

This is all in Litecoins with the power costs already deducted in LTC also. I've added about 5k to the difficulty when Alpha starts delivery (which I highly doubt will ever happen) and have taken the first day of Q2 and Q3 for this scenario.

Now assuming that LTC will stay at the current price, we're looking at a break even of 6 months for 5 x GPU and 1 year for Alphas 5MH/s miner. Whatever happens to the price of LTC if you spend that money on GPU you'd already have a decent amount by the time Alpha starts shipping and difficulty changes. Not to mention that if everything goes south you have resale value in GPUs or just a monster gaming rig while with a Viper you will be left with a very expensive piece of junk.

Furthermore there seems like a massive PR push on the whole from Alphas side rather then actual engineering. On all their updates they've lied about one thing or another and it turns out rather then being a team of engineers they are just accountants?? Their shiny new office is seemingly a takeaway and the CEO is a 23 yo student with no experience?? Money can be easily sent to India for design, manufacturing etc and disappear very quickly (or slowly) excusable by faults, overheads etc. etc. while lining the pockets of the directors (who I assume will be taking hefty payouts/wages from the business during this time) designers etc etc. Then Alpha can simply fold with the owners losing nothing other than the investors (your) money.

Another thing to bear in mind is that Alpha have started to take pre-orders however they have not announced how many units will be available. There are around 4000 order numbers, if we consider just 25% of them to be actually real paid orders then thats 1000 orders and assuming just 1 per order thats 1000 units. Avalon only took on a batch of 300 units and were the first to deliver. BFL on the other hand took over 6000 orders in the space of a year and were only able to deliver 100 after 1 whole year while Avalon shipped both batch 1 and 2! BFL's goal was to raise as much money as possible and may have even reverse engineered Avalon's product (why else would they take that long?). If there are any similarities here they are definitely with BFL. Avalon with their modest number of units kept everyone in the loop with every meeting they had and even posted images of their contracts with the designers and manufacturers.

So ask yourselves this, can you afford to pre-order something that firstly is just theory with no tangible product, and secondly needs to absolutely meet all developer project deadlines to ensure basic ROI?

For what its worth, having followed this company from the very beginning, I think this is just a simple scam.

Thanks for the info Namiki, your work inspired me to do real world calculations myself, something that I stupidly did not do in much detail before.

I noticed that your calculations are based on monthly difficulty increase of 17-19% mostly, with the said static 5000 increase whenever ASIC's hit the market.

I then decided to see where the break-even point would be and took un-real figures, which means that I neglected the probable fact that whenever ASIC's hit the market the difficulty will skyrocket (I actually think that it will double in that month, same as in your 3 months scenario actually).

OK, for my personal situation regarding electricity costs, I came to the conclusion that the break-even point would be a monthly difficulty increase of 5% and calculating that the ASIC's hit the market on the 1st of April. Basically best-case scenario for ASIC miners.

This means that if the monthly difficulty increases with less then 5% per month, ASIC's delivered on the 1st of April are more profitable and if the monthly difficulty is anything higher then 5%, in any given month, it would be more beneficial to buy GPU's now with the same amount of money.

I also just noticed that Tejano posted about this subject, although I cannot seem to follow his number logic.

Based on my above calculations, I actually cancelled my order last night and this morning I woke up with the refund already in my account, which was send 1.5 hours after my request. So kudos to Alpha Technology for this very fast and correct action.

Now, I actually still believe that Alpha will pull it off and will be able to send out the ASIC's in the specified timeline, my decision to cancel was not based on this, it was purely based on profit calculations for my specific situation, which I should have done before ordering, but for some reason didn't.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 07, 2014, 09:52:24 AM
I've split off everything after hashfast into a new topic
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12456.0

I've also split off the profit calculation topic, should have done that earlier, please repost and calculate profits there
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12458.0

I know this will cause some confusion but please try to post into the correct topic - it is really hard for others to get decent infos from a thread that big with that many sub topics, they are all related but deserve their own thread - i will continue to split off topics from now on if i think they are big enough to deserve their own thread.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 07, 2014, 09:57:12 AM
Any calculations I have done are based on my own conditions and are roughly accurate. Like tfbpa you should do your own.

I pay 9p per kWh and get an average of 660 hours a month from my rig. My bill has increased by about £80 since I've set it up. 50 LTC is correct for me at current conditions, however following the trend of LTC - USD exchange I would say that 50 LTC may be enough for even some with more expensive electricity bills. For example if MtGox finally incorporate LTC in their exchange there will be a price bump.

It would make sense for someone paying a lot in electricity to go for a low powered ASIC however given everything that we have discussed in this thread is Alpha really that choice?

Their order terms do not mention what happens to your money after 6 months however they do say that by 5 months half of it + £70 is gone. All they have to do is hold on to your money and it will slowly disappear. They can even take your money, hold it for 6 months, then say we have had problems we will be refunding all customers and still make a tidy sum from interest (which they should pay back to you by law!) and any BTC price increases.

Don't get me wrong I do hope that Alpha are genuine and they do bring an ASIC to the market on time and on budget, however having followed it very closely from the start and given everything that has come to light I extremely doubt that they will be the ones to do it.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tfbpa on January 07, 2014, 10:22:00 AM
Too bad my reply got moved to another thread, if you are OK I would like to point a few people to statistics before they put money somewhere.

Here is the link https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12456.msg91785#msg91785

Hope that some people will read it...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 07, 2014, 10:23:35 AM
Too bad my reply got moved to another thread, if you are OK I would like to point a few people to statistics before they put money somewhere.

Here is the link https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12456.msg91785#msg91785

Hope that some people will read it...

Thats np, i cought the hashfast thread too late so some other replies got moved along...although it belongs into the other split off :D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 07, 2014, 11:20:32 AM
somthing evrybody seems to forget is how manaing a GPU rig is demanding!
lets take 2x 25MH/s Viper . plug them on a cool place of you'r house 1200w 50MH/s  free of minds..
lets take 64 7950 GPU buid them (ho man...) instal them on... oups you need a full big room... plug them... oups 13000w most hous can't handle that... ok imagine you have a profetional electricity. oops need air conditioning... managing 64GPU... half time job... quit your job or your girl frind... ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 07, 2014, 11:23:25 AM
somthing evrybody seems to forget is how manaing a GPU rig is demanding!
lets take 2x 25MH/s Viper . plug them on a cool place of you'r house 1200w 50MH/s  free of minds..
lets take 64 7950 GPU buid them (ho man...) instal them on... oups you need a full big room... plug them... oups 13000w most hous can't handle that... ok imagine you have a profetional electricity. oops need air conditioning... managing 64GPU... half time job... quit your job or your girl frind... ;D

Very true!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 07, 2014, 12:56:37 PM
somthing evrybody seems to forget is how manaing a GPU rig is demanding!
lets take 2x 25MH/s Viper . plug them on a cool place of you'r house 1200w 50MH/s  free of minds..
lets take 64 7950 GPU buid them (ho man...) instal them on... oups you need a full big room... plug them... oups 13000w most hous can't handle that... ok imagine you have a profetional electricity. oops need air conditioning... managing 64GPU... half time job... quit your job or your girl frind... ;D

My GPU rig demands nothing. Sits in the freezing cold garage hashing away making me coins... The 25MH Viper is still a concept and while I am all for ASIC development I highly doubt it will ever materialize.

By the way 2 x Vipers will be 10U and its doubtful you can leave them in a corner. They will be noisy as hell. You also only get 6 months warranty on the Vipers and 2 years on GPU's...

For the small marginal benefits they offer, I'm not buying a pre-order but will wait to invest once the product materializes!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 07, 2014, 01:24:39 PM
somthing evrybody seems to forget is how manaing a GPU rig is demanding!
lets take 2x 25MH/s Viper . plug them on a cool place of you'r house 1200w 50MH/s  free of minds..
lets take 64 7950 GPU buid them (ho man...) instal them on... oups you need a full big room... plug them... oups 13000w most hous can't handle that... ok imagine you have a profetional electricity. oops need air conditioning... managing 64GPU... half time job... quit your job or your girl frind... ;D

My GPU rig demands nothing. Sits in the freezing cold garage hashing away making me coins... The 25MH Viper is still a concept and while I am all for ASIC development I highly doubt it will ever materialize.

By the way 2 x Vipers will be 10U and its doubtful you can leave them in a corner. They will be noisy as hell. You also only get 6 months warranty on the Vipers and 2 years on GPU's...

For the small marginal benefits they offer, I'm not buying a pre-order but will wait to invest once the product materializes!
I agree for the noise, but once again, can't compair with 64 GPU (at least 128 full speed fans)
I olso have a rig a 3.2MH/s but it's not comparable. it's like babysitting one child is not the same at managing a nursery  ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 07, 2014, 02:12:53 PM
somthing evrybody seems to forget is how manaing a GPU rig is demanding!
lets take 2x 25MH/s Viper . plug them on a cool place of you'r house 1200w 50MH/s  free of minds..
lets take 64 7950 GPU buid them (ho man...) instal them on... oups you need a full big room... plug them... oups 13000w most hous can't handle that... ok imagine you have a profetional electricity. oops need air conditioning... managing 64GPU... half time job... quit your job or your girl frind... ;D

My GPU rig demands nothing. Sits in the freezing cold garage hashing away making me coins... The 25MH Viper is still a concept and while I am all for ASIC development I highly doubt it will ever materialize.

By the way 2 x Vipers will be 10U and its doubtful you can leave them in a corner. They will be noisy as hell. You also only get 6 months warranty on the Vipers and 2 years on GPU's...

For the small marginal benefits they offer, I'm not buying a pre-order but will wait to invest once the product materializes!

I ran a 21 gpu setup for a while. It took me about a week to build the frames, set it up and dial it in. I had a few crappy XFX cards mixed in that failed but I sent them back the retailer under warranty and they were replaced pretty fast (about a week with free collection and delivery).  Depending on what brand you buy GPU warranties run from 2 years to lifetime and a some follow the card so are fully transferable when it comes to resale.

Apart from that, they ran with out a hitch in a cold workshop. Also with gpu's it very unlikely they would all fail at once. You can return failed GPU's with minimum disruption to your overall hashrate. If an Asic fails you have to send the whole thing back. Zero hashing for however long it takes for them to sort it out.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see a scrypt asic and yes it would probably be a lot easier to run than a multi gpu rig but unless you can afford to buy more than one you have no redundancy. Currently the speed to price ratio doesn't make it attractive for me and a lot of people in cheaper electricity areas. You also you have to take a MASSIVE punt on theoretical vs actual technology and trust the company producing it. With the current rate of failed SHA-256 asic ventures and no real idea of the people behind this, Alpha is a just a high risk gamble at the moment.

I would urge you all to read the Hashfast article. And look into them. They seemed to do everything right. Good design partner, highly experienced founders , informative website (with photos and bios of the team), realistic pricing, yet they are currently 3+months late on delivery and facing a lawsuit. Food for thought and puts Alpha Technologies into perspective.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on January 07, 2014, 02:18:23 PM
While buying and holding litecoin may not be as exciting or fun as investing in a new startup you may very well be rewarded much better in the long run. Food for thought.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 07, 2014, 02:27:28 PM
Also with gpu's it very unlikely they would all fail at once. You can return failed GPU's with minimum disruption to your overall hashrate. If an Asic fails you have to send the whole thing back. Zero hashing for however long it takes for them to sort it out.
true!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: timvan007 on January 07, 2014, 07:28:51 PM
Also with gpu's it very unlikely they would all fail at once. You can return failed GPU's with minimum disruption to your overall hashrate. If an Asic fails you have to send the whole thing back. Zero hashing for however long it takes for them to sort it out.
true!

Also customer service for the actual return. GPU manufacturers have that process down already for RMA and exchanges. These units are definitely going to take some refinement for anything that breaks...and hopefully it breaks in the first 6 months if at all.

As said before, when this project materializes, I'll probably jump in at the premium. Thanks to everyone funding the dev process.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kalgecin on January 07, 2014, 07:50:07 PM
Has anyone been able to get a refund??? I've requested it but haven't heard back yet!! Why are these people not replying? seriously though, their customer support sucks. I don't like this at all, smells fishy if you ask me....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Raw-H on January 07, 2014, 07:54:35 PM
Has anyone been able to get a refund??? I've requested it but haven't heard back yet!! Why are these people not replying? seriously though, their customer support sucks. I don't like this at all, smells fishy if you ask me....

Some reported a full refund, they received it with paypal even though they paid in bitcoins. (Remember alpha-t is an company not an exchange, so they are totally right to refund you in $)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 07, 2014, 07:59:07 PM
Yup, i have successfully received a refund, one and a half hours after requesting one on a Sunday night. So that would qualify as pretty fast. ;-)

Keep in mind that the company is based in England, so depending on your location, it might be the middle of the night there.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bill_d on January 07, 2014, 08:43:05 PM
So, noob time - recently setup 4x7950s as a bit of an experiment - all running fine after some some teething troubles - got alerted to this development by a pal and jumped straight in with a deposit - now checking out this thread and inevitably having second thoughts!

I see no reason to think this is an out and out scam, though of course Madoff's clients didn't either! Scuzzy office, company records, blah blah blah... If I was going to scam people I would certainly pay more attention to those kind of details and present a glossier facade, in terms of physical shopfront and company legitimacy and competence!

More concerned about development schedule and profitability really. Does anyone with technical knowledge in this area have any comment on the viability of the prototype doc -  https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf (https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf)?

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 07, 2014, 09:00:05 PM
So, noob time - recently setup 4x7950s as a bit of an experiment - all running fine after some some teething troubles - got alerted to this development by a pal and jumped straight in with a deposit - now checking out this thread and inevitably having second thoughts!

I see no reason to think this is an out and out scam, though of course Madoff's clients didn't either! Scuzzy office, company records, blah blah blah... If I was going to scam people I would certainly pay more attention to those kind of details and present a glossier facade, in terms of physical shopfront and company legitimacy and competence!

More concerned about development schedule and profitability really. Does anyone with technical knowledge in this area have any comment on the viability of the prototype doc -  https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf (https://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Scrypt_ASIC_Prototyping_Design_Document.pdf)?



No technical knowledge just gut instincts.  I would cancel your order. Besides the whole point of litecoin is that its resistant to ASICs which is what sets it apart from Bitcoin.  If the ASICs are released there will be little need for litecoin and the mining will only become more centralized.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 07, 2014, 09:48:06 PM

I see no reason to think this is an out and out scam, though of course Madoff's clients didn't either! Scuzzy office, company records, blah blah blah... If I was going to scam people I would certainly pay more attention to those kind of details and present a glossier facade, in terms of physical shopfront and company legitimacy and competence!

I love the logic here  :o You might want to check out the payonix thread for an insight into how lazy scammers can be (and still make a fortune). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323084.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323084.0)
BTW they don't have to be scammers for you to lose all your money

Regarding the tech. I'm no engineer but this thread  has some observations from smarter people than me https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.340 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.340)

Definitely worth a read
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 08, 2014, 02:52:49 PM
"We will be closing our pre-orders end of 10th January 2014 Friday ( UK time )"

All the "good" news seem to aim at adding pressure on buyers.

i paid with BTC and asked for a refund and haven't received an answer yet.

i will update.

Edit - Update: I have received FULL refund in BTC. Alpha apologized for any inconvenience caused and I apologized for being quick to judge.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 08, 2014, 03:15:53 PM
Perhaps that is why they're closing down pre-orders. Too many people requesting refund, grab the cash now and go.

Although this is purely speculation. I'd be wary of ordering right now and perhaps wait for batch 2.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 08, 2014, 03:19:28 PM
Batch 2 might actually be an option here since the sold units won't add much to the network that it will hurt that much to wait...something to consider.

They will most likely be improved too.

If you take the 3k orders from a post before and the mix of 7:3 5mhs:25mhs it will add 30 ghs to the network, someone said its skipping numbers so the real order number might as well be at half or less, do the math - thats 30% max increase right now and not that much for any asic calculation, if the diff continues as ppl have predicted its even less.

Of course if they produce and you receive one earlier you WILL earn more, its risk vs reward ^^
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 08, 2014, 03:28:22 PM
If you take the 3k orders from a post before and the mix of 7:3 5mhs:25mhs it will add 30 ghs to the network

That's 6000 of the 5MH units (the 25 simply comprising 5x5MH in a case), or around 50,000 ASIC chips, just for the initial batch. Those sort of numbers spell profit. Even if Alpha-T don't come up with the goods, this sets a precedent. Expect to see more firms enter the race shortly.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 08, 2014, 03:30:32 PM
Yes, i kinda doubt the first batch will even be that big but we'll see an arms race here soon i guess, let's just hope the most of them actually make it to a product...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 03:36:56 PM
Yes, i kinda doubt the first batch will even be that big but we'll see an arms race here soon i guess, let's just hope the most of them actually make it to a product...

Why are you hoping for ASICs. Surely the point of litecoin was to be ASIC resistant and once their are ASICs it will have lost some its qualities that make it better then Bitcoin.  The ASICs could actually damage litecoin making the ASICs not worth much?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MrCallahan on January 08, 2014, 03:40:24 PM
oh man...having some second thoughts, and debating on getting a refund. Could be more profitable to just take the deposit money, and buy LTC with that, and hold it for a while.

The other thing that attracted me to these units, was that it can be configured to mine any Scrypt based coin. So even if the difficulty of LTC goes up, it still may be very profitable to mine other coins, and trade them on an exchange.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 08, 2014, 03:46:46 PM
Yes, i kinda doubt the first batch will even be that big but we'll see an arms race here soon i guess, let's just hope the most of them actually make it to a product...

Why are you hoping for ASICs. Surely the point of litecoin was to be ASIC resistant and once their are ASICs it will have lost some its qualities that make it better then Bitcoin.  The ASICs could actually damage litecoin making the ASICs not worth much?
Resistant != immune, this has been said many times before

And no, look at btc, the asics haven't hurt it at all and many many private players are still in the field, mining with them.

oh man...having some second thoughts, and debating on getting a refund. Could be more profitable to just take the deposit money, and buy LTC with that, and hold it for a while.

The other thing that attracted me to these units, was that it can be configured to mine any Scrypt based coin. So even if the difficulty of LTC goes up, it still may be very profitable to mine other coins, and trade them on an exchange.
That's always an option, saver :D depends on your vision.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 08, 2014, 04:01:18 PM
"We will be closing our pre-orders end of 10th January 2014 Friday ( UK time )"

All the "good" news seem to aim at adding pressure on buyers.

i paid with BTC and asked for a refund and haven't received an answer yet


I have e-mail them saying that I have posted this message and I will re-move it only after they contact and re-fund me.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 08, 2014, 04:12:54 PM
They got a thread at btctalk too, not sure which one is their main concern.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 08, 2014, 04:18:07 PM
they have contacted me by e-mail.
ill update if the refund goes smooth.
if not ill start posting on the thread at btctalk too

edit: their replay - Okay no problem. We give all refunds to everyone regardless of forum posts etc. All emails regarding orders are dealt at this email address. We will process your refund with BitPay now.

there was a misunderstanding also on my behalf.
i will keep updating
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 08, 2014, 04:21:31 PM
They got a thread at btctalk too, not sure which one is their main concern.

They are silent there too! I think they stopped caring and are continuously pushing out "good" news to attract more customers!

There are also several people on btctalk who have demanded a refund but got no answer.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ropian on January 08, 2014, 04:37:14 PM
I e-mailed regarding  a refund

07.01.14 10:06am
08.01.14 02:12am
08.01.14 12:11pm

and have had ZERO response

Looking forwards to hearing updates regarding refunds.



Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ropian on January 08, 2014, 04:46:23 PM
IGNORE THAT

(http://i.imgur.com/MJSPRss.jpg)

just refunded it seems
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 04:57:15 PM
Under the Distance Selling Regulations the right to cancel an item (pre-ordered or not) starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  This is interesting since their terms are illegal in the UK.   Also 6 months warranty is illegal in the UK also.  I guess they are shipping internationally so it will vary but at the moment they seem to not know the business.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 08, 2014, 05:21:17 PM
Under the Distance Selling Regulations the right to cancel an item (pre-ordered or not) starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  This is interesting since their terms are illegal in the UK.   Also 6 months warranty is illegal in the UK also.  I guess they are shipping internationally so it will vary but at the moment they seem to not know the business.

I was searching the warranty and it did seem that 6 months is actually the bare minimum so that's what they have opted for.

I was also under the impression that it was 1 year however it seems to be 6 months. I've not concrete information.

Regardless of what any retailer may say under EU directive 1999/44/EC all Electronic equipment should be fault free for at least 2 years so anyone who has problems within that time period can either get a refund or a replacement by going to the retailer with that law. If they get no where with the retailer, taking it to court (if the company is still afloat) will get you your money back and costs!

Doubtful any scam company will stay afloat however!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 05:26:25 PM
Under the Distance Selling Regulations the right to cancel an item (pre-ordered or not) starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  This is interesting since their terms are illegal in the UK.   Also 6 months warranty is illegal in the UK also.  I guess they are shipping internationally so it will vary but at the moment they seem to not know the business.

I was searching the warranty and it did seem that 6 months is actually the bare minimum so that's what they have opted for.

I was also under the impression that it was 1 year however it seems to be 6 months. I've not concrete information.

Regardless of what any retailer may say under EU directive 1999/44/EC all Electronic equipment should be fault free for at least 2 years so anyone who has problems within that time period can either get a refund or a replacement by going to the retailer with that law. If they get no where with the retailer, taking it to court (if the company is still afloat) will get you your money back and costs!

Doubtful any scam company will stay afloat however!

Yes i think the minimum is 2 years but after 6 months they can make it your responsibility to find the fault.  They still have to fix it.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: baxter92 on January 08, 2014, 06:13:22 PM
So this just a scam?? If not ill buy 4 of the 25Mh/s machines
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 08, 2014, 06:18:25 PM
They wrote to me: "We will process your refund with BitPay now".
More than 1 Hour has passed and still didn't receive any refund.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 06:58:26 PM
So this just a scam?? If not ill buy 4 of the 25Mh/s machines

 
For the love of god, do not order.  When you see that I am right in 6 months time come back here and send me a tip in  [ltc]
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 08, 2014, 06:58:41 PM
Under the Distance Selling Regulations the right to cancel an item (pre-ordered or not) starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  This is interesting since their terms are illegal in the UK.   Also 6 months warranty is illegal in the UK also.  I guess they are shipping internationally so it will vary but at the moment they seem to not know the business.

You are right
From an OFT pdf http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

"The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made
, including the cost of delivery."


They also have to include the full price, including taxes and shipping costs on their site which they have not done.

"3.1 You must give your consumers certain information before they agree
to buy from you. We refer to this as pre-contractual information which
includes the following.
(i) Your identity including sufficient detail for the consumer to be
able to identify the business they are dealing with.
(ii) A description of the main characteristics of the goods or services
you are offering.
(iii) The price of the goods or services you are offering, including
all taxes.
(iv) Details of any delivery costs."
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Googs84 on January 08, 2014, 07:03:49 PM
Then dont buy this product. The people who buy this product know were not buying it from Amazon or some reputable company. This is a startup. If it was a guarantee everyone would be rich but for the few people who preorder taking that risk there could be amazing reward. It could also all go to crap and they shut there doors down one morning but that wont happen. I believe this company is going to deliver.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 08, 2014, 07:11:44 PM
It could also all go to crap and they shut there doors down one morning but that wont happen. I believe this company is going to deliver.

Based on what ?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 07:15:08 PM
wishful thinking
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Googs84 on January 08, 2014, 07:36:58 PM
There is no basis on this.... Its a gamble. Pure gamble but if it does happen to come out like they said with the hash rate they say its a massive win. But like I said they can close there website tomorrow and run away with all that money. Big risk Big Gamble.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 08, 2014, 07:54:58 PM
There is no basis on this.... Its a gamble. Pure gamble but if it does happen to come out like they said with the hash rate they say its a massive win. But like I said they can close there website tomorrow and run away with all that money. Big risk Big Gamble.
I'm not sure about massive win. A saving on electricity yes but not a significant enough increase over GPU hashing to justify the considerable risk.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
There is no basis on this.... Its a gamble. Pure gamble but if it does happen to come out like they said with the hash rate they say its a massive win. But like I said they can close there website tomorrow and run away with all that money. Big risk Big Gamble.

its a very high risk investment with a very low reward.  High risk is supposed to mean high reward. This is not the case. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 08, 2014, 08:19:58 PM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 08, 2014, 08:26:00 PM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.

I only work for myself, I just passionately hate scammers and don't want to see anyone loose their money.   You are right that I should get a life a write about something else.  Please don't order from Alpha tech.  Thats enough from me  :P
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 08, 2014, 09:12:05 PM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.
+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 08, 2014, 10:04:36 PM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.

Nice try dragging the competition into this thread, any comment on those fibonacci questions will be deleted, ask them in the correct thread!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 08, 2014, 10:10:48 PM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.
+1
+2 ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on January 08, 2014, 10:42:39 PM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.

+9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 SO TRUE! (sorry guys been in Goa, holidays with the families.. i didn't buy a device cudnt afford)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on January 08, 2014, 11:03:27 PM
I'm not sure the distance selling act for UK covers us, I'm sure I read a while ago that there are permetations regarding delivery dates and how long you have. Need 100% hard evidence about our rights with distance selling act and pre-ordering from Alpha T.

Also I'm not sure if paying by credit card through paypal covers people. As it is through a 3rd party platform such as Paypal then I think we lose rights we would normally have by paying with a credit card by itself. Need more information on all this though so we know exactly what to expect.

Under the Distance Selling Regulations the right to cancel an item (pre-ordered or not) starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  This is interesting since their terms are illegal in the UK.   Also 6 months warranty is illegal in the UK also.  I guess they are shipping internationally so it will vary but at the moment they seem to not know the business.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 09, 2014, 12:10:30 AM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.

First you accuse me of being Jasinlee, now I work for a competitor. Which is it buddy? Interesting how you talk about me spreading BS and then throw around unsubstantiated allegations. A bit hypocritical don't you think?
You join this forum less than a week ago, post only rabid pro Alpha comments then have the cheek to accuse me of being a plant???
Check my join date and read my posts then come back and say that with a straight face.

Its no skin off my nose what you waste your money on, that is entirely up to you but I would urge anyone new to read through the whole thread and make your own mind up. Check the posting history and join dates of people to see if you can trust what they are saying. If you do that I'm pretty sure you'll come to a reasonable conclusion.

If Alpha technologies had been here to answer all the pretty legitimate questions people had, we wouldn't be digging around the internet looking for answers. But  since they started taking pre-order money on the 4th of Jan they have not made one post on this thread or the one on bitcointalk. Make of that as you will.

Anyway there is more than enough info here without my further input. Good luck whatever you decide to do. I've seen too many scams and failures in the last couple of years. I really hope this is not one of them. But it doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on January 09, 2014, 12:24:09 AM
Litecoinninja, and mainly Retro. You keep commenting non-stop on this forum negative bs, when you get proven wrong you move onto something else. Okay we understand what your saying... most likely you are competitor's friends, or are indeed the other projects members. It is only 2 PEOPLE, who are constantly posting this stuff.. i am mainly looking at RETRO, he is on this forum and bitcointalk forum, non-stop negativity.

It is clear Retro is part of another competitor's project or something else. Because if he actually cared about what a real scam was, he would be on Jasinlee's forum, who is jasin working with? what is jasin's name? or address? or company name???.. you don't even know the basics on jasinlee besides from a one person team.

That is the truth.

First you accuse me of being Jasinlee, now I work for a competitor. Which is it buddy? Interesting how you talk about me spreading BS and then throw around unsubstantiated allegations. A bit hypocritical don't you think?
You join this forum less than a week ago, post only rabid pro Alpha comments then have the cheek to accuse me of being a plant???
Check my join date and read my posts then come back and say that with a straight face.

Its no skin off my nose what you waste your money on, that is entirely up to you but I would urge anyone new to read through the whole thread and make your own mind up. Check the posting history and join dates of people to see if you can trust what they are saying. If you do that I'm pretty sure you'll come to a reasonable conclusion.

If Alpha technologies had been here to answer all the pretty legitimate questions people had, we wouldn't be digging around the internet looking for answers. But  since they started taking pre-order money on the 4th of Jan they have not made one post on this thread or the one on bitcointalk. Make of that as you will.

Anyway there is more than enough info here without my further input. Good luck whatever you decide to do. I've seen too many scams and failures in the last couple of years. I really hope this is not one of them. But it doesn't look good.

I am open to any admin verifying my ip vs my login history as being the same static ip for over a month or more. I do not dodge any questions so I do not know why you would think I would bother to create another account or hire a shill.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Pangea_Plyr on January 09, 2014, 01:14:12 AM
I am looking forward to flipping one of my Batch 1 pre orders to one of you guys for 5x+ what I paid for it when the working prototype hits youtube.  If this is a scam, they are not stopping at Batch 1.  They will be hyping additional batches which will give everyone a chance to flip their orders for profit in the coming months.  This flip is possible as they will not confirm a shipping address until the final payment is made.
 I was responded to immediately after my order was processed.  I a pretty confident that after the 10th, upcoming updates will have batches 2 & 3 sell out in a day.  The ppl calling this a scam also missed the opportunity to buy LTC at $2.25 and now are holding at $38.



From: Alpha Technology Orders & Payments <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Order 61xx
Date: January 4, 2014 1:20:30 PM EST
To: xxxxxx


Shipping address will be available before shipment upon final payment.

Regards

Alpha Technology Team

On 4 Jan 2014 17:24,
Please make sure my shipping address is same as billing. Not showing on order.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: losh11 on January 09, 2014, 01:20:48 AM
I am looking forward to flipping one of my Batch 1 pre orders to one of you guys for 5x+ what I paid for it when the working prototype hits youtube.  If this is a scam, they are not stopping at Batch 1.  They will be hyping additional batches which will give everyone a chance to flip their orders for profit in the coming months.  This flip is possible as they will not confirm a shipping address until the final payment is made.
 I was responded to immediately after my order was processed.  I a pretty confident that after the 10th, upcoming updates will have batches 2 & 3 sell out in a day.  The ppl calling this a scam also missed the opportunity to buy LTC at $2.25 and now are holding at $38.



From: Alpha Technology Orders & Payments <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Order 61xx
Date: January 4, 2014 1:20:30 PM EST
To: xxxxxx


Shipping address will be available before shipment upon final payment.

Regards

Alpha Technology Team

On 4 Jan 2014 17:24,
Please make sure my shipping address is same as billing. Not showing on order.

"Posts: 1"
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 09, 2014, 02:28:18 AM
asked for refund 2 days ago!
last message i received from them was: "We are awaiting on BitPay. They process the refunds, not us. Please allow 24 hours."
I don't think it should take this long. 
(i will keep updating)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 02:32:45 AM
lol come on Alpha Tech, make an effort with your fake forum profiles
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: OverSoft on January 09, 2014, 07:12:18 AM
asked for refund 2 days ago!
last message i received from them was: "We are awaiting on BitPay. They process the refunds, not us. Please allow 24 hours."
I don't think it should take this long. 
this is bullshit behavior - buyers WATCH OUT.
(i will keep updating)

That's strange, i payed via Bitcoin, but got refunded via PayPal. They told me they couldn't even refund in Bitcoins.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: r4dd on January 09, 2014, 07:16:00 AM
asked for refund 2 days ago!
last message i received from them was: "We are awaiting on BitPay. They process the refunds, not us. Please allow 24 hours."
I don't think it should take this long. 
this is bullshit behavior - buyers WATCH OUT.
(i will keep updating)

That's strange, i payed via Bitcoin, but got refunded via PayPal. They told me they couldn't even refund in Bitcoins.

"Refunds and Adjustments.

Refund Procedures. In the event that you wish to issue a refund to a purchaser, BitPay can handle this. You can decide to issue a partial refund or the full amount of the initial purchase. You can also decide whether to issue the original amount of the invoice in your local currency or in the number of Bitcoins paid. If you do not have enough funds in your BitPay account to cover the refund, BitPay may require you to deposit Bitcoins into your BitPay account to cover the refund to the purchaser. Any required currency conversion during the refund process will be calculated at a spot rate determined by BitPay, following the guidelines found here: https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-exchange-rates.

Disclosure of Your Refund Policy. Merchants are required to have a clear refund policy for their customers. We recommend you refund the amount of the initial purchase in the currency in which the item was priced.

Purchaser Complaints. Purchasers filing complaints about a purchase will be forwarded to you for resolution. BitPay reserves the right to terminate accounts which receive excessive complaints."

- https://bitpay.com/terms

-----
Is this some kind of joke?

// everyone else - give bitpay an email for your refund
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 09, 2014, 07:49:49 AM
r4dd - thank you for the information and advise.
i e-mail bitpay @ [email protected] the following email:

Hello,
I have orderd a Viper (25 Mh/s) from https://alpha-t.net/ and paid in BTC (3.2140 BTC for the 30% deposit)
the order number is #7254 and here is the invoice:  "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
they declare they have 1 month full refund policy: https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/

i asked for a refund over 2 days ago and this was there replay:

"We are awaiting on BitPay. They process the refunds, not us. Please allow 24 hours.
Regards
Alpha Technology Team"

waiting to hear from you asap.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 09, 2014, 07:50:50 AM
asked for refund 2 days ago!
last message i received from them was: "We are awaiting on BitPay. They process the refunds, not us. Please allow 24 hours."
I don't think it should take this long. 
this is bullshit behavior - buyers WATCH OUT.
(i will keep updating)

That's strange, i payed via Bitcoin, but got refunded via PayPal. They told me they couldn't even refund in Bitcoins.

"Refunds and Adjustments.

Refund Procedures. In the event that you wish to issue a refund to a purchaser, BitPay can handle this. You can decide to issue a partial refund or the full amount of the initial purchase. You can also decide whether to issue the original amount of the invoice in your local currency or in the number of Bitcoins paid. If you do not have enough funds in your BitPay account to cover the refund, BitPay may require you to deposit Bitcoins into your BitPay account to cover the refund to the purchaser. Any required currency conversion during the refund process will be calculated at a spot rate determined by BitPay, following the guidelines found here: https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-exchange-rates.

Disclosure of Your Refund Policy. Merchants are required to have a clear refund policy for their customers. We recommend you refund the amount of the initial purchase in the currency in which the item was priced.

Purchaser Complaints. Purchasers filing complaints about a purchase will be forwarded to you for resolution. BitPay reserves the right to terminate accounts which receive excessive complaints."

- https://bitpay.com/terms

-----
Is this some kind of joke?

// everyone else - give bitpay an email for your refund


I ordered 2 units, i wanted a refund for one unit because i couldnt afford final payment. , and bitpay is notorious for taking ages giving refunds, its dealt by them not alpha techno i think. and they said if i wanted a faster option to get a refund i could use Paypal. so they just gave me full payment in paypal.. im presuming thats the situation... plus i received full amount in paypal, which means they must of paid the extra processing fees...

people not giving any time or slack...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 09, 2014, 07:55:48 AM
I hope you are right.
i will be the first to apologies once i receive the refund.
i also told alpha i will edit my posts once refund received.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 09, 2014, 09:28:36 AM
I am looking forward to flipping one of my Batch 1 pre orders to one of you guys for 5x+ what I paid for it when the working prototype hits youtube.  If this is a scam, they are not stopping at Batch 1.  They will be hyping additional batches which will give everyone a chance to flip their orders for profit in the coming months.  This flip is possible as they will not confirm a shipping address until the final payment is made.
 I was responded to immediately after my order was processed.  I a pretty confident that after the 10th, upcoming updates will have batches 2 & 3 sell out in a day.  The ppl calling this a scam also missed the opportunity to buy LTC at $2.25 and now are holding at $38.



From: Alpha Technology Orders & Payments <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Order 61xx
Date: January 4, 2014 1:20:30 PM EST
To: xxxxxx


Shipping address will be available before shipment upon final payment.

Regards

Alpha Technology Team

On 4 Jan 2014 17:24,
Please make sure my shipping address is same as billing. Not showing on order.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

It's likely this will barely break even if it ever does materialise, how do you expect anyone to give you 5x or even 1.5x what you paid LOL

Also Alpha are doing something unprecedented, they're not taking pre-orders based on an amount of units they have to sell in Batch 1 but on an aount of days?? This just tells me that they're trying to raise as much cash as possible rather then take a fulfillable amount of orders.

I could set up a company tomorrow and deliver a much much much more credible pitch, and get a load of muppets like you to place an order and dream of money falling from the sky  ;D

I'm not sure the distance selling act for UK covers us, I'm sure I read a while ago that there are permetations regarding delivery dates and how long you have. Need 100% hard evidence about our rights with distance selling act and pre-ordering from Alpha T.

Also I'm not sure if paying by credit card through paypal covers people. As it is through a 3rd party platform such as Paypal then I think we lose rights we would normally have by paying with a credit card by itself. Need more information on all this though so we know exactly what to expect.

Under the Distance Selling Regulations the right to cancel an item (pre-ordered or not) starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  This is interesting since their terms are illegal in the UK.   Also 6 months warranty is illegal in the UK also.  I guess they are shipping internationally so it will vary but at the moment they seem to not know the business.

As a company based in the UK Alpha have to abide by UK law which includes DSR. You could always file a complanit/lawsuit or be part of a class action lawsuit against Alpha without having the need to be in the UK.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 09, 2014, 10:04:23 AM

Also Alpha are doing something unprecedented, they're not taking pre-orders based on an amount of units they have to sell in Batch 1 but on an aount of days?? This just tells me that they're trying to raise as much cash as possible rather then take a fulfillable amount of orders.

+1
Big Red Flag
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 09, 2014, 10:55:03 AM
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

It's likely this will barely break even if it ever does materialise, how do you expect anyone to give you 5x or even 1.5x what you paid LOL

Dear Namiki,

why don't you simply reply to my post showing that your calculations are pretty off? Apparently you "forgot" to properly account for energy costs.
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12458.msg93308#msg93308

GPU computing isn't an "investment" either, but rather speculation on coin value going up!

Also Alpha are doing something unprecedented, they're not taking pre-orders based on an amount of units they have to sell in Batch 1 but on an aount of days?? This just tells me that they're trying to raise as much cash as possible rather then take a fulfillable amount of orders.

As far as I understand they had to achieve a certain pre-order amount to continue the dev process, and they closed the pre-order once that was the case.

Of course, it could all be a scam or all go upside down, and in that case... well... I'm not going to give free legal advice here.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 12:33:09 PM
I agree that mining in any form is speculation, holding litecoins is also speculation. Infact every investment is speculation.  As the difficulty increases its likely so will the prices as miners are not going to sell the coins at a loss. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 09, 2014, 02:24:07 PM

Also Alpha are doing something unprecedented, they're not taking pre-orders based on an amount of units they have to sell in Batch 1 but on an aount of days?? This just tells me that they're trying to raise as much cash as possible rather then take a fulfillable amount of orders.

+1
Big Red Flag

At least they won't run out of money too quickly if something goes wrong.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 09, 2014, 02:45:05 PM
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

It's likely this will barely break even if it ever does materialise, how do you expect anyone to give you 5x or even 1.5x what you paid LOL

Dear Namiki,

why don't you simply reply to my post showing that your calculations are pretty off? Apparently you "forgot" to properly account for energy costs.
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12458.msg93308#msg93308

GPU computing isn't an "investment" either, but rather speculation on coin value going up!

Also Alpha are doing something unprecedented, they're not taking pre-orders based on an amount of units they have to sell in Batch 1 but on an aount of days?? This just tells me that they're trying to raise as much cash as possible rather then take a fulfillable amount of orders.

As far as I understand they had to achieve a certain pre-order amount to continue the dev process, and they closed the pre-order once that was the case.

Of course, it could all be a scam or all go upside down, and in that case... well... I'm not going to give free legal advice here.

I have replied to you in the other thread and have explained my calculations as I did here before it was moved.

You can't achieve a certain amount of pre-orders to fund your development process because then there is nothing left for fulfilling the orders. There is no liquidation and no cash-flow to support any possible overheads, design errors, miscalculations etc etc. If it works in that way it is a simple pyramid scheme and the only outcome will be bankruptcy!

Here's a scenario for you:

Alpha takes pre-orders for Batch 1, uses money to design and develop product. Product is ready so batch 2 opens to raise money for manufacturing. Batch 2 pre-orders close manufacturing begins. Competitor brings out cheaper/better product ready to ship. People want their money back, no further cash can be raised from another batch of pre-orders. No cashflow = Bankruptcy.

This is how/why Avalon failed on their third batch (that's how I see it anyway).

If they had a product then yea they could raise capital for manufacturing through pre-ordering and deliver the product. Other companies are developing the product at their own expense. That is the right way to do it, as if something goes wrong then you've lost your own/the banks money rather than that of thousands of people.

If Alpha is in fact genuine (for which I have my doubts) this is a poorly structured and executed business plan. You'd expect much more from accountants, unless, the intentions actually lie elsewhere...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 02:58:27 PM
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

It's likely this will barely break even if it ever does materialise, how do you expect anyone to give you 5x or even 1.5x what you paid LOL

Dear Namiki,

why don't you simply reply to my post showing that your calculations are pretty off? Apparently you "forgot" to properly account for energy costs.
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12458.msg93308#msg93308

GPU computing isn't an "investment" either, but rather speculation on coin value going up!

Also Alpha are doing something unprecedented, they're not taking pre-orders based on an amount of units they have to sell in Batch 1 but on an aount of days?? This just tells me that they're trying to raise as much cash as possible rather then take a fulfillable amount of orders.

As far as I understand they had to achieve a certain pre-order amount to continue the dev process, and they closed the pre-order once that was the case.

Of course, it could all be a scam or all go upside down, and in that case... well... I'm not going to give free legal advice here.

I have replied to you in the other thread and have explained my calculations as I did here before it was moved.

You can't achieve a certain amount of pre-orders to fund your development process because then there is nothing left for fulfilling the orders. There is no liquidation and no cash-flow to support any possible overheads, design errors, miscalculations etc etc. If it works in that way it is a simple pyramid scheme and the only outcome will be bankruptcy!

Here's a scenario for you:

Alpha takes pre-orders for Batch 1, uses money to design and develop product. Product is ready so batch 2 opens to raise money for manufacturing. Batch 2 pre-orders close manufacturing begins. Competitor brings out cheaper/better product ready to ship. People want their money back, no further cash can be raised from another batch of pre-orders. No cashflow = Bankruptcy.

This is how/why Avalon failed on their third batch (that's how I see it anyway).

If they had a product then yea they could raise capital for manufacturing through pre-ordering and deliver the product. Other companies are developing the product at their own expense. That is the right way to do it, as if something goes wrong then you've lost your own/the banks money rather than that of thousands of people.

If Alpha is in fact genuine (for which I have my doubts) this is a poorly structured and executed business plan. You'd expect much more from accountants, unless, the intentions actually lie elsewhere...

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: peled1986 on January 09, 2014, 04:00:39 PM
Update:
I have order 2 X Viper (25 Mh/s) and paid in BTC (3.2140 BTC for the 30% deposit on each one)
the order numbers are: #7241 and #7254.
I canceled them both and got FULL refund in BTC.
Alpha apologized for any inconvenience caused and I am apologizing that I was too quick to judge.
I wish them and all the buyers best of luck!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 09, 2014, 04:06:17 PM
Update:
I have order 2 X Viper (25 Mh/s) and paid in BTC (3.2140 BTC for the 30% deposit on each one)
the order numbers are: #7241 and #7254.
I canceled them both and got FULL refund in BTC.
Alpha apologized for any inconvenience caused and I am apologizing if I was too quick to judge.

Ok deleted your entries on http://alphat.emux.fr

And yes indeed I believe some here are too impatient, but I can understand with all these scams around... The latest coin launches IPO-style are rather fun to watch  8)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 09, 2014, 04:14:17 PM
Oh - nice site :D

Would love for alpha to dump some order numbers for statistics but he hasn't been on this board for a while...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 09, 2014, 04:34:13 PM
[This is aimed at Namiki's last post on the previous page. Forgot to quote, and I'm on an iPad :-]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your logic, but what you say makes no sense to me. Consider the costs if I'm creating an ASIC once I actually have a design


I know all of this ahead of time. I can then choose a batch quantity that makes sense (probably 10000 chips to allow for yield rates on the first gen), and calculate the unit cost that I need to charge in order to cover costs.

Then I negotiate a staged payment contract with my ASIC design folks, so that I can offer the same to customers who pre-order, and I throw in an extra factor of 20-30% or so to the pre-order customers so there's some wiggle room, and profit.

Orders start to come in, as I start to trend towards the number of orders that makes me comfortable regarding yield %age, I announce that we're going to close pre-orders.

Now it's possible it's just a scam, but it's equally possible that everything is on-track.

The whole "competitor brings out better/cheaper product" angle is (a) speculative - aren't we just discussing how hard this process is ? Why would a competitor have an easier time than Alpha ? And (b) ignores that competitor will have a whole load of NRE that Alpha has already paid, so Alpha has a lot more price flexibility on batches 2,3,...

The below is more general comment, not aimed specifically at your post...

As for the "why don't they reply on the forum to all our concerns" whines, have any of you actually *run* a small company ? Because I have, a successful one, I might add, and my colleagues and I had *much* more important things to do (in order to, you know, actually ship the product) than look after the fragile ego of Internet forumites. Our attitude was along the lines of "let them bitch and moan, the proof will be in the pudding", and that worked for us.

I get that some people on here have their knickers in a twist over Alpha. I do. I also get that this may be a complete scam, and I'll have thrown away money. Considering the potential massive return on investment (due to energy costs), it's a viable risk for me. It may not be for you, and that's fine. I just wish I could read more thoughtful and considered posts than "Alpha is a scam. Fact!" and the like.

For what it's worth, my current stance is that it's not yet possible to tell if they're a scam, but since I've never been much of a fan of mob justice, the strident and vociferous clamour from the anti-Alpha crowd is pushing me to side with them more, not less.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MrCallahan on January 09, 2014, 04:45:01 PM

Ok deleted your entries on http://alphat.emux.fr

And yes indeed I believe some here are too impatient, but I can understand with all these scams around... The latest coin launches IPO-style are rather fun to watch  8)

I decided to back out, I requested a refund last night, and had it returned within an hour (via Paypal). I think I'll be approaching this with a different strategy, will be mining with my current rig as long as I can, and the money I was going to invest into this will just go into purchasing some LTC.

You can remove my order from that list too, 5435.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 09, 2014, 04:50:31 PM
I decided to back out, I requested a refund last night, and had it returned within an hour (via Paypal). I think I'll be approaching this with a different strategy, will be mining with my current rig as long as I can, and the money I was going to invest into this will just go into purchasing some LTC.

You can remove my order from that list too, 5435.

Removed!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: flopzie on January 09, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
Just FYI - I was passing Dickenson Road (where the Alpha-T office is) earlier so I took a quick look. I wanted to go and say hello, but it isn't a working office. It is next door to this accounting firm's office (http://www.akramco.com/). The Alpha Technology office was being 'revamped' (i.e had the lights on, and somebody working to actually turn it into an office). The accounting firm's office appeared to be closed.

All of this, from my point of view, supports the fact that they are a real outfit, and not trying to scam anyone. Whether or not they deliver their promises is a different matter. As various people have mentioned, the path from concept to a fully working ASIC has proven to be a rocky one, for mining crypto currencies anyway.

Just thought I'd share my intel! (Oh, I love puns.. Intel. Ha!)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 05:41:58 PM
I just reported alpha technologies to the offices of fair trading for breaching the distance sellers regulations and for breach of EU warranty laws.  They are cowboys no doubt. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on January 09, 2014, 05:47:03 PM
How have they broken the distance selling regulations act and are you sure it can apply to this type of pre-order situation as we only have an estimate of delivery date?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 05:52:33 PM
How have they broken the distance selling regulations act and are you sure it can apply to this type of pre-order situation as we only have an estimate of delivery date?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: MrCallahan on January 09, 2014, 05:57:24 PM
My gut instinct is telling me that these guys are trying to be legit, and really want to be successful in this venture. But they are rather young and inexperienced in the world they are going into. So they'll be trying their best to get the business up and running, but will be learning a lot of lessons on the way in regards to legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up.

So it's totally possible it could be a bust, but it won't be because they wanted it to be that way, it'll be because there were errors along the way that made them realize that they may be in over their heads, and taken on more than they can chew.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on January 09, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
My gut instinct is telling me that these guys are trying to be legit, and really want to be successful in this venture. But they are rather young and inexperienced in the world they are going into. So they'll be trying their best to get the business up and running, but will be learning a lot of lessons on the way in regards to legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up.

So it's totally possible it could be a bust, but it won't be because they wanted it to be that way, it'll be because there were errors along the way that made them realize that they may be in over their heads, and taken on more than they can chew.

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 09, 2014, 06:01:23 PM
How have they broken the distance selling regulations act and are you sure it can apply to this type of pre-order situation as we only have an estimate of delivery date?

I think the idea was they'd broken the cancellation policy ruling, and I'm not sure they have broken it... See http://www.out-law.com/page-430#goods (http://www.out-law.com/page-430#goods)
Quote
Example: the written confirmation and additional information is provided to a new customer three weeks after he placed an order. The cancellation period will be 7 working days from the day after the date the written confirmation was provided

They provided me with confirmation immediately, and also provided 30 days of full refund capability. Looks to me as though they're going above and beyond the requirements.

Not sure about the EU warranty laws though - AFAIK, you have a minimum 2-year warranty in the EU, but only if it's faulty or not-as-advertised. They may have to extend their warranty to the 2-year minimum for faulty units, assuming it is as-advertised, that is.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 06:04:17 PM
You are entitled under the DSR to a full refund up to 7 days after delivery of the product.  All that stuff on their website about only recieving 50% of your deposit back after a certain amount of time is illegal.  They will mess people around for 6 months and then give back 50% of peoples deposits is what I expect.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 09, 2014, 06:15:10 PM
You are entitled under the DSR to a full refund up to 7 days after delivery of the product.  All that stuff on their website about only recieving 50% of your deposit back after a certain amount of time is illegal.  They will mess people around for 6 months and then give back 50% of peoples deposits is what I expect.

Yeah, I take that back. I'd mis-read the previous paragraph, which would appear to take precedence ("where written confirmation and additional information is provided before or at the time of delivery of the goods, the cancellation period is 7 working days beginning with the day after the day on which the goods are delivered").

Which does make a lot more sense, given the intention of the DSR. Good catch - I'll email Alpha and see what their response is...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: carface on January 09, 2014, 06:32:26 PM
So are we 100% covered in the UK if we do pre-order as we should be able to get our money back if we cancel before 7 days after we receive the goods?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 06:39:42 PM
So are we 100% covered in the UK if we do pre-order as we should be able to get our money back if we cancel before 7 days after we receive the goods?

Obviously not, what the law states and what people do are two different things.  If the company folds then you get nothing.  If the company says no then you have to take them to court.  Not covered at all but the law will be on your side. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: voodook on January 09, 2014, 08:51:27 PM
My gut instinct is telling me that these guys are trying to be legit, and really want to be successful in this venture. But they are rather young and inexperienced in the world they are going into. So they'll be trying their best to get the business up and running, but will be learning a lot of lessons on the way in regards to legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up.

So it's totally possible it could be a bust, but it won't be because they wanted it to be that way, it'll be because there were errors along the way that made them realize that they may be in over their heads, and taken on more than they can chew.

I came to the same conclusion. The question is, however, whether one is ready to pay for their "lessons on legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up".
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 09:05:11 PM
My gut instinct is telling me that these guys are trying to be legit, and really want to be successful in this venture. But they are rather young and inexperienced in the world they are going into. So they'll be trying their best to get the business up and running, but will be learning a lot of lessons on the way in regards to legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up.

So it's totally possible it could be a bust, but it won't be because they wanted it to be that way, it'll be because there were errors along the way that made them realize that they may be in over their heads, and taken on more than they can chew.

I came to the same conclusion. The question is, however, whether one is ready to pay for their "lessons on legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up".

Yes this is no way to learn business. Learn business with your own money or go to university.  Risking hundreds of other peoples money in the hope you can learn as you go along is immoral.   Apparently these guys are accountants so I do not buy the stupid and inexperienced card for a second.  This is a scam.  And not a very good one at that.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 09, 2014, 10:14:38 PM
My gut instinct is telling me that these guys are trying to be legit, and really want to be successful in this venture. But they are rather young and inexperienced in the world they are going into. So they'll be trying their best to get the business up and running, but will be learning a lot of lessons on the way in regards to legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up.

So it's totally possible it could be a bust, but it won't be because they wanted it to be that way, it'll be because there were errors along the way that made them realize that they may be in over their heads, and taken on more than they can chew.

I came to the same conclusion. The question is, however, whether one is ready to pay for their "lessons on legalities, dealing with delays, unexpected costs that creep up".

Yes this is no way to learn business. Learn business with your own money or go to university.  Risking hundreds of other peoples money in the hope you can learn as you go along is immoral.   Apparently these guys are accountants so I do not buy the stupid and inexperienced card for a second.  This is a scam.  And not a very good one at that.

There is no indication they are a scam, considering partnerships and openness so far. Seriously, you keep going on and it's clear you have some sort of connection with a competitior or something. Retro has stopped posting and now it's you non-stop hmmmmmmm.. something fishy.

And Distance Selling Regulation... you need to get your facts right. You can get a refund after 7 days the Product is SHIPPED. They haven't said you can't. Regarding Deposits, if you do not want to carry on with an agreement of paying the full amount at the end, LEGALLY the company is allowed to FULLY TAKE the Deposit. Atleast they are giving you something back.

You need to appreciate 1.   deposit 30% is taken and not 100%, and opportunity for a refund... i got killed by Butterfly Labs 100% upfront and then no opportunity for a refund at all. I received a full refund, by ALPHA but that is during pre-order phase and it was completed within an hour... which is good.

The real issue here is you, not what your saying. So which project are you associated with? JasinLee's or Crypto Industries???...

IF this was a scam, this would have to be the best scam in the world, considering they were mentioned on newspapers,  coindesk, IBTIMES and some others. Especially they are accountants and we can verify their information through official accounting credentials (which i have), working to get a chartered accountancy TAKES YEARSSSS. and you can lose it in a second... their names, address... accounting credentials are all on the table. this is obviously NOT A SCAM.

NOW troll elsewhere, i want to see people discuss the actual product of VIPER. How much power consumption you think the 25 mh/s device will have.. they said their diesize is lower , that mean less power consumption???????????
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: flopzie on January 09, 2014, 10:23:48 PM
I agree, no indication it's a scam. Also, if we again look to the Bitcoin ASIC companies, some of the failed and as a result people lost money. They weren't scams. There were, of course, some scammers out there...  but they were always the minority. Personally speaking, that's a non-issue, and I do not blame Alpha for not even addressing it.

The 7 day return is an interesting point though. I probably would've made a modest order if I'd have thought I would be protected by distance selling regulations on shipping as opposed to pre-order date. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on January 09, 2014, 10:35:44 PM
Competition is good for the end user. Fibonacci has already cut the proposed price of their units from $0.90 per kh/sec to $0.65 per kh/sec. The least expensive Alpha Technology miner is selling for $0.45 per kh/sec. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 09, 2014, 10:40:50 PM
How have they broken the distance selling regulations act and are you sure it can apply to this type of pre-order situation as we only have an estimate of delivery date?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

Oh boy, Mr ImALiteWannabeNinja again. You are really getting on my nerves. Smokes and Mirrors, a thick paste of FUD - what else can you offer? Apparently not enough brain or effort. Sorry for the rant, that had to get out.

5 seconds on google and I got this hit:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm
Quote from: CAB link=http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm
Can I get a deposit back if I cancel my order?

This information applies to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

You may be able to get your deposit back if it was put down as part-payment. You should remember that the trader is entitled to compensation because you have broken the agreement for goods or carrying out a service so keeping part or all of the deposit might be reasonable if the trader has spent money based on your order.

If you change your mind and it seems reasonable for the trader to keep the deposit because they have already spent money based on your order then you do not have to pay any more than the amount of the deposit.

Deposits can be refunded if the trader has not kept their side of the agreement or if you and the trader agree beforehand that the deposit would be returned in particular circumstances.

So no, it's NOT ILLEGAL that they only offer partial refunds. In fact, it totally makes sense and points to a legitimate business.

It would be dishonest if they pretended to offer a full refund during any stage of the development. Let's just assume for a second they are a proper business but are not backed with a lot of cash. In a months time they will have spent part of the pre-order deposits. If they allowed for 100% refund at that point it would be at the cost of people NOT asking for a refund. And if many people asked for a refund at the same time, they would have to declare bankruptcy and all promises of 100% refund of deposits would be worth - nothing!

So I'd rather have it that way - because that's how the business operates and because it makes sense.

Apart from that, suppose they are scammers. Don't you trust your own countries legal system at all? They are incorporated in the UK, and not in Nigeria or wherever. If they took the money they'd have to leave the country quickly. I'm sure they cannot simply funnel the money away, or pay themselves a disproportionate salary, as that would not be upheld in front of a court.

In my opinion the biggest risk is that they are too inexperienced to make it all happen.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobbobobbo on January 09, 2014, 10:51:02 PM
Lots of back and forth in this thread, with no real substance. These guys are not a scam. That's a possibility with anything, yet not likely in this situation.

They are INEXPERIENCED taking on a technological feat at VERY HIGH RISK. They have brought buyers in with demand and very low price points, with the foundation all essentially based on theory. Even for the most expert of designers, Scrypt ASIC design has many issues that may trip them up along the way. Which could easily cost millions and months upon months of delays, if not complete dissolution. Coupled with their history in the this field, cheap officefront, amateur demonstration video, etc, they are in way over their heads.

I wish them and the purchasers all the best, yet the odds of them completing such a task as expected, is very slim. Which many in this thread flat out do not want to hear. I just wish the community wasn't so greedy to take such gambles with such obviously inept startup companies.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 09, 2014, 11:19:29 PM
Lots of back and forth in this thread, with no real substance. These guys are not a scam. That's a possibility with anything, yet not likely in this situation.

They are INEXPERIENCED taking on a technological feat at VERY HIGH RISK. They have brought buyers in with demand and very low price points, with the foundation all essentially based on theory. Even for the most expert of designers, Scrypt ASIC design has many issues that may trip them up along the way. Which could easily cost millions and months upon months of delays, if not complete dissolution. Coupled with their history in the this field, cheap officefront, amateur demonstration video, etc, they are in way over their heads.

I wish them and the purchasers all the best, yet the odds of them completing such a task as expected, is very slim. Which many in this thread flat out do not want to hear. I just wish the community wasn't so greedy to take such gambles with such obviously inept startup companies.

+1

However they do appear to have raised funding to proceed with the project. Whether it is enough is another question. My estimate of $5million NRE is an outsider's guess. You have to be in negotiation with the foundries to get actual figures. My main concern is the apparent lack of experience of Dexcel in ASIC design (Structured ASIC is just FPGA for volume, 28nm standard cell is a complete order of magnitude more complex). As with the bitcoin ASIC pioneers, we're just going to have to wait and see (its fascinating for me, even though I've got no skin in the game, popcorn, yay!)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 09, 2014, 11:20:07 PM
How have they broken the distance selling regulations act and are you sure it can apply to this type of pre-order situation as we only have an estimate of delivery date?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

Oh boy, Mr ImALiteWannabeNinja again. You are really getting on my nerves. Smokes and Mirrors, a thick paste of FUD - what else can you offer? Apparently not enough brain or effort. Sorry for the rant, that had to get out.

5 seconds on google and I got this hit:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm
Quote from: CAB link=http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm
Can I get a deposit back if I cancel my order?

This information applies to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

You may be able to get your deposit back if it was put down as part-payment. You should remember that the trader is entitled to compensation because you have broken the agreement for goods or carrying out a service so keeping part or all of the deposit might be reasonable if the trader has spent money based on your order.

If you change your mind and it seems reasonable for the trader to keep the deposit because they have already spent money based on your order then you do not have to pay any more than the amount of the deposit.

Deposits can be refunded if the trader has not kept their side of the agreement or if you and the trader agree beforehand that the deposit would be returned in particular circumstances.

So no, it's NOT ILLEGAL that they only offer partial refunds. In fact, it totally makes sense and points to a legitimate business.

It would be dishonest if they pretended to offer a full refund during any stage of the development. Let's just assume for a second they are a proper business but are not backed with a lot of cash. In a months time they will have spent part of the pre-order deposits. If they allowed for 100% refund at that point it would be at the cost of people NOT asking for a refund. And if many people asked for a refund at the same time, they would have to declare bankruptcy and all promises of 100% refund of deposits would be worth - nothing!

So I'd rather have it that way - because that's how the business operates and because it makes sense.

Apart from that, suppose they are scammers. Don't you trust your own countries legal system at all? They are incorporated in the UK, and not in Nigeria or wherever. If they took the money they'd have to leave the country quickly. I'm sure they cannot simply funnel the money away, or pay themselves a disproportionate salary, as that would not be upheld in front of a court.

In my opinion the biggest risk is that they are too inexperienced to make it all happen.

Wow. I try to get out but I get dragged back in.

What you have just quoted from the CAB website is in regard to BUYING FROM A SHOP. The Distance selling Regulations clearly state in section 3.48 http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf (http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf)  Please read it

What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48 The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery
.


So yes their T&C's are illegal. This information has been posted several times in this thread but you choose to ignore it. As you choose to ignore anything that isn't pro Alpha

And as for Hover_skills. Your only gambit is to constantly accuse anyone who disagrees with you with being a plant. When you're the one with the dubious posting history and join date.  Your vehement defence of Alpha Technologies does not make sense. I'm going to trust that most people here are smart enough to see through your little charade
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 09, 2014, 11:21:33 PM
Lots of back and forth in this thread, with no real substance. These guys are not a scam. That's a possibility with anything, yet not likely in this situation.

They are INEXPERIENCED taking on a technological feat at VERY HIGH RISK. They have brought buyers in with demand and very low price points, with the foundation all essentially based on theory. Even for the most expert of designers, Scrypt ASIC design has many issues that may trip them up along the way. Which could easily cost millions and months upon months of delays, if not complete dissolution. Coupled with their history in the this field, cheap officefront, amateur demonstration video, etc, they are in way over their heads.

I wish them and the purchasers all the best, yet the odds of them completing such a task as expected, is very slim. Which many in this thread flat out do not want to hear. I just wish the community wasn't so greedy to take such gambles with such obviously inept startup companies.

QFMFT

Exhibit A : BFL
Exhibit B : TerraHash
Exhibit C : HashFast

Cointerra are late on their batch 1 December shipping date

So far only one Asic company has delivered on time, KNC. Even Avalon were late. So I really don't understand the bullishness from some posters. At best this is a very high risk gamble. At worst a complete scam. Either way you could lose every penny you put in.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 09, 2014, 11:21:54 PM
think I am gonna order 5 of their 25mh/s units. Really good deal they are offering with massive returns.  They seem like really intelligent people.  Can't wait for my orders to arrive Im gonna be so much richer.  ::)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: medialab101 on January 10, 2014, 12:39:53 AM
A poster on another thread pointed this out but it seems that Scryt Asic International's address (scryptasic.org) now points to Alpha-t's website (alpha-t.net). Any thoughts...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 10, 2014, 12:51:47 AM
A poster on another thread pointed this out but it seems that Scryt Asic International's address (scryptasic.org) now points to Alpha-t's website (alpha-t.net). Any thoughts...

Well scrypt Asic is pretty much a known scam. But there's nothing to suggest Alpha T has anything to do with them, unless they just bought the domain. Although considering Scrypt asic's rep that wouldn't be the greatest idea. Its pretty easy to redirect a website. Knowing scrpt asic they probably did this to grab more money for their bullshit cryptostocks.

Someone should alert Alpha to this and see what they say
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 10, 2014, 01:15:04 AM

Wow. I try to get out but I get dragged back in.

What you have just quoted from the CAB website is in regard to BUYING FROM A SHOP. The Distance selling Regulations clearly state in section 3.48 http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf (http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf)  Please read it

What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48 The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery
.


So yes their T&C's are illegal. This information has been posted several times in this thread but you choose to ignore it. As you choose to ignore anything that isn't pro Alpha

And as for Hover_skills. Your only gambit is to constantly accuse anyone who disagrees with you with being a plant. When you're the one with the dubious posting history and join date.  Your vehement defence of Alpha Technologies does not make sense. I'm going to trust that most people here are smart enough to see through your little charade

I got a reply back from Alpha. Here it is unabridged:
Quote

That is inaccurate. EU Laws give customers the right to a warranty for a number of years IF the product is faulty and you can prove it. 6 month warranty is something we are giving as a courtesy to customers we are not in an obligation to give any extended warranty from our end.

In regards to DSR. 7 days after you RECEIVE your product you are entitled to a FULL refund including deposit. This is once final payment is made.

That has no relevance with deposits pre final payment and pre shipping. If a customer decides after agreeing to our set agreements to pay the deposit. And then decides they do not want the product or want to pay final payment. They forfeit the deposit and by law we are allowed to take full deposit. But once again as a courtesy we are giving back deposits as well.

Please do your due diligence and full research. We have checked and confirmed all our rules via the international regulations.

You should contact the DSR and any authorities regarding this case for your self satisfaction.

Alpha Technology Team

I've asked for a clarification on the difference between the required EU minimum warranty and the (presumably) additional 6-month warranty that they specify.

Having read the PDF from the OFT, I think they are correct, however. The DSR rules specifically apply to after the product has been delivered, there is nothing to protect you during a development phase as far as I can see. The key phrase is:

Quote
Where the DSRs give consumers the right to cancel an order, this right is unconditional and begins from the moment the contract is concluded

The conclusion of a contract is a legal term, and means the point at which the supplier has delivered, and the customer has paid. In other words, I can't see how the DSR helps prior to the delivery of an end-product. I wish it were not so, but it seems to be the case. If the DSRs were to apply before a product had been shipped and received, it would be more trying to protect against buyer's remorse than product failure, which I believe is their intent.

Simon.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 10, 2014, 01:18:38 AM
I thought this at first but after looking into it I'm not sure I agree with you.

The DSR gives a consumer the right to cancel at any time up to delivery and seven days beyond.
If I place an order for delivery next week I can cancel at anytime between now and then for a full refund. But by your measure the contract has not been concluded until delivery, so I have no right to cancel until the item is delivered.  This is not the case.

I believe The contract is concluded when any payment is made. That is why in a store/Shop, if you leave a deposit it is seen as a binding contract and you can be sued for the full amount if you cancel.

From the OFT consumer protection  pdf. http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_protection/oft689.pdf (http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_protection/oft689.pdf) (it is regarding vehicles but the contractual law should be universal)

"Q.  You Talk about conclusion of a contract - When is a contract concluded?

A. A contract is concluded when the consumer becomes bound to purchase something and the supplier becomes bound to supply it. Conclusion of a contract is determined by the facts on a case by case basis. It is therefore in your interests to make the steps by which a contract be concluded plain to consumers.
For example if you advertise on a website and the consumer orders on-line you should make it clear at what stage you intend a binding agreement to be reached. You need to explain whether the contract becomes binding when the consumer places their order, or only when you confirm you have accepted their offer to buy"


You have placed your order, secured it with a deposit and they have accepted it, so the contract is concluded.

I may be wrong but I hope, for the sake of the people that have paid, that I'm not. Otherwise after 5 months, according to their T&C's you are not entitled to any refund at all if you cancel. That opens up a whole realm of scamming possibilities.

Anyway I'll call the OFT tomorrow and clarify this once and for all.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: cryptoxs on January 10, 2014, 03:35:32 AM
The latest update on their website about the members of their team waives away all doubts for me. No scammer will reveal who he really is, who are his parents and relatives. unless he is really desperate and dumb.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 10, 2014, 03:49:33 AM
The latest update on their website about the members of their team waives away all doubts for me. No scammer will reveal who he really is, who are his parents and relatives. unless he is really desperate and dumb.

About time Alpha!! I guess forum pressure works after all. Good job.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: accord1999 on January 10, 2014, 03:59:42 AM
The latest update on their website about the members of their team waives away all doubts for me. No scammer will reveal who he really is, who are his parents and relatives. unless he is really desperate and dumb.
Knowing who their people are hasn't stopped other ASIC companies from over-promising, under-delivering and failing in the past. The head of Hashfast even interviewed with Businessweek.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 10, 2014, 04:23:23 AM
The latest update on their website about the members of their team waives away all doubts for me. No scammer will reveal who he really is, who are his parents and relatives. unless he is really desperate and dumb.
Knowing who their people are hasn't stopped other ASIC companies from over-promising, under-delivering and failing in the past. The head of Hashfast even interviewed with Businessweek.

The statement wasn't whether they would succeed or fail,  it was whether they were a scam or not...

Any business can fail, I'm primarily concerned about it intentionally failing.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: accord1999 on January 10, 2014, 04:32:34 AM
Any business can fail, I'm primarily concerned about it intentionally failing.
I'm doubt any Hashfast pre-orderers care whether Hashfast intentionally wanted to fail or not.

Besides there are many other ways to be a scam without outright theft of money, such as promising certain deadlines knowing full that you'll never hit them or simply by sitting on the crypto currency and seeing how it performs. If it rises against the US$, you simply refund everyone in US$ and if it drops, refund everyone in the original crypto; essentially a no-lose bet.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 10, 2014, 04:36:30 AM
The latest update on their website about the members of their team waives away all doubts for me. No scammer will reveal who he really is, who are his parents and relatives. unless he is really desperate and dumb.
Knowing who their people are hasn't stopped other ASIC companies from over-promising, under-delivering and failing in the past. The head of Hashfast even interviewed with Businessweek.

The statement wasn't whether they would succeed or fail,  it was whether they were a scam or not...

Any business can fail, I'm primarily concerned about it intentionally failing.

Well, if your interpretation of the DSR is correct, they could intentionally fail after 5 months and completely get away with all your money. So publishing their names would be no big deal really. You would have no legal recourse, If say they forced mass cancellations by breaking ties with dexcel  and pushing the shipping date back by a year.

If I was a scammer that would be my play. This is why we need clarification on DSR and deposit returns
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: AlphaTechnology on January 10, 2014, 05:32:21 AM
Greetings Miners!

We are less than a day away from closing our pre order books, everything has been going smoothly and our engineering teams have already started to ramp up development! In Bangalore we initially had one team devoted to this project, we now have over 4 experienced teams working on various aspects of this project including ASIC design, Host Mining software porting on ARM controller, Mechanical design , certification aspects (CE/FCC) and WebGui in parallel, so we can fulfill our timeline and product promises. As of now we are targeting end of Q2 as our delivery date. A detailed plan will be published in due course.

Note. Pending payments will be allowed 7 working days after closing time to complete any pending order payments.

The innovative team in Manchester is devoted to guiding the engineering efforts in India, updating the community with our progresses, and all customer support. Our team is actively growing rapidly to deal with our loyal community and to show a great deal of transparency into this project. Our updates will be very regular, at the least weekly and we will show customers every aspect of design and production that is happening.

We have also updated our management team profile on our website to let you know of the people behind this initiative and thus bringing more transparency.

You may check the below link on our management team, along with responsibilities and position of each member:

https://alpha-t.net/about-us/team-2/

Stay tuned for more updates.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tfbpa on January 10, 2014, 06:02:20 AM
Greetings Miners!

We are less than a day away from closing our pre order books, everything has been going smoothly and our engineering teams have already started to ramp up development! In Bangalore we initially had one team devoted to this project, we now have over 4 experienced teams working on various aspects of this project including ASIC design, Host Mining software porting on ARM controller, Mechanical design , certification aspects (CE/FCC) and WebGui in parallel, so we can fulfill our timeline and product promises. As of now we are targeting end of Q2 as our delivery date. A detailed plan will be published in due course.

Note. Pending payments will be allowed 7 working days after closing time to complete any pending order payments.

The innovative team in Manchester is devoted to guiding the engineering efforts in India, updating the community with our progresses, and all customer support. Our team is actively growing rapidly to deal with our loyal community and to show a great deal of transparency into this project. Our updates will be very regular, at the least weekly and we will show customers every aspect of design and production that is happening.

We have also updated our management team profile on our website to let you know of the people behind this initiative and thus bringing more transparency.

You may check the below link on our management team, along with responsibilities and position of each member:

https://alpha-t.net/about-us/team-2/

Stay tuned for more updates.

Good to see that update and also good to know that my research into your company was accurate. :D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 10, 2014, 06:10:06 AM
The latest update on their website about the members of their team waives away all doubts for me. No scammer will reveal who he really is, who are his parents and relatives. unless he is really desperate and dumb.
Knowing who their people are hasn't stopped other ASIC companies from over-promising, under-delivering and failing in the past. The head of Hashfast even interviewed with Businessweek.

The statement wasn't whether they would succeed or fail,  it was whether they were a scam or not...

Any business can fail, I'm primarily concerned about it intentionally failing.

Well, if your interpretation of the DSR is correct, they could intentionally fail after 5 months and completely get away with all your money. So publishing their names would be no big deal really. You would have no legal recourse, If say they forced mass cancellations by breaking ties with dexcel  and pushing the shipping date back by a year.

If I was a scammer that would be my play. This is why we need clarification on DSR and deposit returns

Hence my statement about "intentionally failing". If they give it the good old college try, genuinely attempting to make a go of it, but fail because of (whatever), well that's the risk I knew about going into this. I'd be disappointed but not angry. *If* (and there's still no way to tell IMHO) they're just after a cash grab, that's something completely different.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 10, 2014, 06:54:22 AM
Hence my statement about "intentionally failing". If they give it the good old college try, genuinely attempting to make a go of it, but fail because of (whatever), well that's the risk I knew about going into this. I'd be disappointed but not angry. *If* (and there's still no way to tell IMHO) they're just after a cash grab, that's something completely different.

Fair points. My issue is I would have to buy at least two 25MH/s rigs to make this worth my while. One 5MH/s rig is just not going to cut it for me. I'm not willing to risk £10-15k (+VAT) based on what they have presented so far.
I'll keep an eye on things as they progress. If it looks good I can always buy in later at lower risk. Less profit maybe but I've got other irons in the fire so I'm in no rush.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 10, 2014, 10:10:18 AM
The DSR gives a consumer the right to cancel at any time up to delivery and seven days beyond.
If I place an order for delivery next week I can cancel at anytime between now and then for a full refund. But by your measure the contract has not been concluded until delivery, so I have no right to cancel until the item is delivered.  This is not the case.

I had actually typed up some reply, but must have forgotten to send. So here is a short version.

There are exceptions to DSR as explained here http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations (http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations)
Quote
The goods you can't return
There are some goods you can't return if you simply change your mind, including:
    CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping
    perishable and other items that deteriorate rapidly such as food and flowers
    tailor-made or personalised goods
    underwear and earrings

You could argue the ASIC is tailor-made. Again, I mainly argue this, because it makes business sense. And as I explained before I would prefer if their pre-order arrangement is legal. Three months down the road they will have spent part of the deposits on development. And that money is gone. If people can simply cancel with a full refund all the way through, Alpha-Tech could go bust because of cancellations and people cancelling earlier would be at an advantage.

Well, if your interpretation of the DSR is correct, they could intentionally fail after 5 months and completely get away with all your money. So publishing their names would be no big deal really. You would have no legal recourse, If say they forced mass cancellations by breaking ties with dexcel  and pushing the shipping date back by a year.

If I was a scammer that would be my play. This is why we need clarification on DSR and deposit returns

Again, I have some trust in the UK legal system, albeit not as much as in the legal system I grew up with. :D If they go into administration they have to wind down the business and pay all money left back to their debtors = customers. If there is no money left they have to show how they spend the money. They can't simply say their CEO had a salary of 1Mio£/year, as that is clearly unreasonable.

Again, I believe the highest risk is that they fail because they cannot get the technology working fast/cheap enough.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 10:28:14 AM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 10, 2014, 10:32:28 AM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 10:46:57 AM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Kuikens on January 10, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Just ordered 3 25MH units.
CC blocked them.
Downsized to 2 units, same problem.
1 25 MH unit ordered and it passed...
Not able to order a second one, so I'll stay with 1 unit.
Maybe I'm glad in a few months the CC company had such low limits installed...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: evgamine on January 10, 2014, 01:36:53 PM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money.

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 02:27:36 PM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money.

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?

lol yeah I am really jealous of Alpha Tech, if only I had their shared wealth of genius Ideas.  The only way these guys are gonna make a million pounds is if they start with 2 million.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: alexb on January 10, 2014, 02:34:29 PM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rcqwRgVvvw     ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: axa on January 10, 2014, 02:39:28 PM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money.

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?

lol yeah I am really jealous of Alpha Tech, if only I had their shared wealth of genius Ideas.  The only way these guys are gonna make a million pounds is if they start with 2 million.

Suggest you give it a rest. Everyone on the forum knows you do not care for Alpha Technology by now.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 10, 2014, 02:48:46 PM

I had actually typed up some reply, but must have forgotten to send. So here is a short version.

There are exceptions to DSR as explained here http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations (http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations)
Quote
The goods you can't return
There are some goods you can't return if you simply change your mind, including:
    CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping
    perishable and other items that deteriorate rapidly such as food and flowers
    tailor-made or personalised goods
    underwear and earrings

You could argue the ASIC is tailor-made. Again, I mainly argue this, because it makes business sense. And as I explained before I would prefer if their pre-order arrangement is legal. Three months down the road they will have spent part of the deposits on development. And that money is gone. If people can simply cancel with a full refund all the way through, Alpha-Tech could go bust because of cancellations and people cancelling earlier would be at an advantage.
Its a massive stretch to say these are bespoke/tailor made products. There are no specifications that are personalised and unique to each individual unit. They are produced in batches. Every unit in the batch will be EXACTLY THE SAME therefore they are in no way personalised or bespoke to the customer. Therefore not covered by that exception.

I hear what you are saying about mass cancellations causing the company to fail. But there would only be mass cancellations if Alpha do not meet expectations. The DSR is there to keep them honest and ensure customers do not get ripped off. If alpha want to ensure success they need to hit their targets and keep customers happy. If your assumptions are correct they can pretty much do as they please and still walk away rich. I know which one I would rather have.

Of course people cancelling earlier would have an advantage. Just as early pre-orders have an advantage. its the nature of the beast. I'm sure most of the people who saw the writing on the wall for TerraHash are pretty happy right now. Those who clung on are not and they'll be lucky to get half of their investment back. But there are two sides to that argument. If you cancel and they succeed you miss out.

BTW if a company goes into administration. Customers very rarely see their money back. There are thousands of ways to funnel money out of companies (I'm pretty sure accountants could figure something out) and a development of this size will burn through it anyway. Consumers always get paid last, there will be suppliers, banks, subcontractors ect in line way before you. I would just assume if it fails you have lost your stake. Anything more is a bonus.

I should also point out. Under the DSR they are required to list the full price of the items, INCLUDING ALL TAXES AND SHIPPING COSTS. It is not enough to just to put "excl vat" and leave you to figure out the rest. The customer has to know exactly what they are paying and what their final bill will be. Otherwise what's to stop them slapping on £1000 for shipping at your final payment?

But I can see that whatever I say regarding the DSR will be disputed so I'm going to leave it up to you to find out for yourselves. Call the OFT or CAB and find out for yourselves. I haven't put any money down so I've got no vested interest. I suggest those that have, look into it and find out what your rights are.

I've spent too much time on this thread already so I'm going to check back every once in a while to see the progress. FWIW I would like to see Alpha succeed (although I do worry about its implications for Scrypt coins) And will definitely buy an asic, be it from Alpha or someone else. I wish those involved the best of luck. The next few months will be very interesting.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 02:49:25 PM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money.

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?

lol yeah I am really jealous of Alpha Tech, if only I had their shared wealth of genius Ideas.  The only way these guys are gonna make a million pounds is if they start with 2 million.

Suggest you give it a rest. Everyone on the forum knows you do not care for Alpha Technology by now.

No I will carry on serving the litecoin community by informing people of how bad an idea it is to make a purchase from Alpha tech. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: evgamine on January 10, 2014, 03:12:17 PM
you're a goof ^^
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
you're a goof ^^

Ah yes insults the sure sign of intellectual defeat.  Thanks for acknowledging the fact that there are no good reasons to purchase from Alpha Technology.  :P
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 03:55:58 PM
I think if they want investors they should ask for investors.  Getting customers to pre order and then use that money as if they were investors is wrong.  Customers expect a product not an investment.

That company is using a Kickstarter-type funding. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the risks.

I dont see anywhere on the website where it informs people that they might never get their product and that they might loose all their money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rcqwRgVvvw     ;D

I skydive professionally so no I would not trade that for working for a cowboy outfit like Alpha tech.  Certainly not jealous but I do like your attempts at trolling. Please continue.    They see me trolling, they hating
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 10, 2014, 04:07:08 PM

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?

Seriously how old are you?

Why does pointing out flaws in the way a company conducts their business have anything to do with jealousy?

He is right in saying that if you're making an investment you should be made aware of the risks. The facts are that money being taken for pre-orders will be invested in product design. If there are any problems and things start to go wrong where will Alpha get the rest of the money? Will they request more or will they fold?

They are selling a product that they do not yet have. Its a no brainer that some people may see it as fraud!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 04:18:22 PM

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?

Seriously how old are you?

Why does pointing out flaws in the way a company conducts their business have anything to do with jealousy?

He is right in saying that if you're making an investment you should be made aware of the risks. The facts are that money being taken for pre-orders will be invested in product design. If there are any problems and things start to go wrong where will Alpha get the rest of the money? Will they request more or will they fold?

They are selling a product that they do not yet have. Its a no brainer that some people may see it as fraud!

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: evgamine on January 10, 2014, 04:36:20 PM

jealousy is a disease.. thought about checking yourself out?

Seriously how old are you?

Why does pointing out flaws in the way a company conducts their business have anything to do with jealousy?

He is right in saying that if you're making an investment you should be made aware of the risks. The facts are that money being taken for pre-orders will be invested in product design. If there are any problems and things start to go wrong where will Alpha get the rest of the money? Will they request more or will they fold?

They are selling a product that they do not yet have. Its a no brainer that some people may see it as fraud!

I'm 12, like seriously
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 10, 2014, 04:37:56 PM
I'm 12, like seriously

ROFL
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on January 10, 2014, 04:43:26 PM
This is beginning to remind me of mcxnow/realsolid and his crew.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 04:46:40 PM
Yes taking payment for a product that does not exist and then using that money to fund R and D without properly informing the customers of the risks of losing their money is criminal fraud.  This thread might be used in the court case against them.  In which case  hi judge, nice wig :)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 10, 2014, 05:01:31 PM
I have a close friend who works as a prosecutor for the crown prosecution service.  I shall see what she thinks.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bobo on January 10, 2014, 05:03:22 PM
Isn't evgamine a known scammer from bitcointalk?

I thought he was trying to scam a fake video card sale on this website too.....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: foxten on January 10, 2014, 07:17:28 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but has anybody considered just calling the development company to at least confirm all of the claims that Alpha Tech has made?  Or if the community requires proof of payment or retainer to the development company, then they could easily provide proof of the transactions.  I would think they would want to make things as transparent as possible.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 11, 2014, 12:18:28 AM
Insight from someone who actually went down to Alpha T's office and met one of the brothers.

Quite an interesting read

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1uveun/alpha_technologys_scam_team_akram_akram_akram_and/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1uveun/alpha_technologys_scam_team_akram_akram_akram_and/)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 11, 2014, 12:49:01 AM
Insight from someone who actually went down to Alpha T's office and met one of the brothers.

Quite an interesting read

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1uveun/alpha_technologys_scam_team_akram_akram_akram_and/ (https://litecointalk.org/r/litecoinmining/comments/1uveun/alpha_technologys_scam_team_akram_akram_akram_and/)

Foxten... if they were not working with them im sure they wouldnt have this up on their website: http://dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html


And in response to retroz, that was an interesting readdd!!!! have you scrolled down to bottom, MJ AKRAM has replied..... makes sense, and very disrespectful from the visitors part.... RETRO is that you who went to the office??
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 11, 2014, 01:03:59 AM
Have to agree that the response from the Akrams was well-written, and the content was reasonable.

As it happens, I've cancelled my order and requested a refund from [email protected] We'll see how quickly they process that. I still think they're probably on the up-and-up, but the risk-level is too high for my liking. I have other irons in the fire, and I'll focus on those.

Simon
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 11, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
Insight from someone who actually went down to Alpha T's office and met one of the brothers.

Quite an interesting read

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1uveun/alpha_technologys_scam_team_akram_akram_akram_and/ (https://litecointalk.org/r/litecoinmining/comments/1uveun/alpha_technologys_scam_team_akram_akram_akram_and/)

Foxten... if they were not working with them im sure they wouldnt have this up on their website: http://dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html


And in response to retroz, that was an interesting readdd!!!! have you scrolled down to bottom, MJ AKRAM has replied..... makes sense, and very disrespectful from the visitors part.... RETRO is that you who went to the office??
Was that you who posted this on reddit? v v

"No offence, but your information irrelevant and you sound like an asss, you get time to talk to someone, and nothing scammy is said??? Do you know they are just an ADMIN office, main things are being done at Dexcel Designs... All engineering and manufacturing is being done in India... http://dexceldesigns.com/news_events.html. And Dexcel Designs have been around for a long time,
Also if you knew anything about Chartered or Certified Accountancy practices, do you know it takes years to become a chartered accountant? if you do ONE small thing wrong you lose your license, do not judge a book by its cover (in terms of building)... SCAMS normally have amazing buildings and dress in suits and talk their bullshit to you.. These guys are like controlling the operations but real engineering is being conducted in India..
All im worried is about is shipping time, not legitimacy."


Looks remarkably like the stuff you've been posting here. For a guy who's supposedly only bought one 5MH/s viper you seem to be spending an awful lot of time defending them.

You getting paid by the post?

And before you ask what my interest in Alpha is.
I think at best Alpha haven't proved they are anywhere near capable of pulling this off. At worst they are going to shut up shop and disappear with your cash. The more we allow these low budget cowboys to sniff around for quick pre-order cash, the more we invite the kind of scams and failures we've had to go through the past couple of years. If I've made just one person think hard about joining another pre-order lotto, that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 11, 2014, 01:47:43 AM

And before you ask what my interest in Alpha is.
I think at best Alpha haven't proved they are anywhere near capable of pulling this off. At worst they are going to shut up shop and disappear with your cash. The more we allow these low budget cowboys to sniff around for quick pre-order cash, the more we invite the kind of scams and failures we've had to go through the past couple of years. If I've made just one person think hard about joining another pre-order lotto, that's good enough for me.
[/quote]

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 11, 2014, 01:56:13 AM
RETRO, and LITECOINNINJA, or Jasinlee's friend. Please give over!.. you are constant and clearly full of BS , jealously, negativity. Their pre orders are finished, now we see what updates come next. Jasinlee not having a business or premises at all, will likely not get many sales.. i think you people have never ran a business before, claiming some1s office is crap etc... get a life children... and only technical talk from now please.

ADMIN, PLEASE BAN RETRO AND LITECOININJA.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: worldlybedouin on January 11, 2014, 01:57:55 AM

And before you ask what my interest in Alpha is.
I think at best Alpha haven't proved they are anywhere near capable of pulling this off. At worst they are going to shut up shop and disappear with your cash. The more we allow these low budget cowboys to sniff around for quick pre-order cash, the more we invite the kind of scams and failures we've had to go through the past couple of years. If I've made just one person think hard about joining another pre-order lotto, that's good enough for me.



+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: retro on January 11, 2014, 02:00:24 AM
RETRO, and LITECOINNINJA, or Jasinlee's friend. Please give over!.. you are constant and clearly full of BS , jealously, negativity. Their pre orders are finished, now we see what updates come next. Jasinlee not having a business or premises at all, will likely not get many sales.. i think you people have never ran a business before, claiming some1s office is crap etc... get a life children... and only technical talk from now please.

ADMIN, PLEASE BAN RETRO AND LITECOININJA.
LoL. Ban someone because they question Alpha technology??? You wouldn't have many people left here.

BTW do you actually read posts or do you just bounce around the forums and reddit screaming like a madman?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on January 11, 2014, 02:25:25 AM
When did I get friends on here? I do not need shills, I can talk for myself.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 11, 2014, 03:38:02 AM
And before you ask what my interest in Alpha is.
I think at best Alpha haven't proved they are anywhere near capable of pulling this off. At worst they are going to shut up shop and disappear with your cash. The more we allow these low budget cowboys to sniff around for quick pre-order cash, the more we invite the kind of scams and failures we've had to go through the past couple of years. If I've made just one person think hard about joining another pre-order lotto, that's good enough for me.

-1

There is no other explanation than you having a vested interest in Alpha-tech failing. Maybe you pre-ordered somewhere else and hope that alpha-tech fails so difficulty doesn't increase as much? With all your legal knowledge you must know that lying to discredit a person is a criminal offense. You should tame your language.

Maybe someone should do the same to other ASIC developers? For example, should I start activating all my connections to german lawyers and see how I can make jasinlee's life difficult? Maybe trigger a tax investigation? See whether they are properly conforming to all regulations and file complaints at every "Behoerde" I know of? What about work-place safety? You do realise that Germany is more regulation-rich than the UK.

How about if I did a large pre-order at another ASIC startup and then cancel just when it went to the tape-out? I'd point to the same DSR blurb that you cited over and over again and sue them, demanding immediate refund and force them into administration. Sounds like fun?!

Also, the finance director of alpha-tech, Mohammed Jafar Akram, is an accredited accountant and would most likely lose his accreditation if this was a scam. His career would be ruined if that materialized.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on January 11, 2014, 03:47:13 AM
Lol I wish you would. The day I have to hire a shill is the day I stop using the forums.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 11, 2014, 03:49:24 AM
I hear what you are saying about mass cancellations causing the company to fail. But there would only be mass cancellations if Alpha do not meet expectations. The DSR is there to keep them honest and ensure customers do not get ripped off. If alpha want to ensure success they need to hit their targets and keep customers happy. If your assumptions are correct they can pretty much do as they please and still walk away rich. I know which one I would rather have.

What if another company offers an ASIC earlier? Surely people will try to run for the exit and order the other ASIC.
Maybe you missed the financial crisis of 2008 and the bank runs? Even if a bank (e.g. Bear Stearns) had a legitimate business it could easily be brought down by customers withdrawing money or business.

And again, how would they "walk away rich" if they failed? The pre-order deposits would be burned by dev costs. They cannot simply pay themselves an unreasonable salary. Any money left would go to the creditors (=pre-order customers). Yes, they might squander the money. But simply taking it with them? I don't see how that is legally possible.

BTW if a company goes into administration. Customers very rarely see their money back. There are thousands of ways to funnel money out of companies (I'm pretty sure accountants could figure something out) and a development of this size will burn through it anyway. Consumers always get paid last, there will be suppliers, banks, subcontractors ect in line way before you.

A customer is a creditor just like any other creditor. There are no lines and customers are NOT last. They are on the same level as any other creditor. Unless there is preferred or secured debt involved, which would get serviced first. But at that company size? You must be kidding.

The only problem is the legal cost involved. But I'm sure there are ways around that in the UK (small claims court? CAB?).

I've spent too much time on this thread already so I'm going to check back every once in a while to see the progress.

The logical thing to do would be NOT to check back as you spent to much time. ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: artilectinc on January 11, 2014, 06:42:34 AM
Wow the resemblance of the events unfolding reminds me so much of the Butterfly Labs fiasco post BTC FPGA.  Pre order money tied up for months.  Promises to deliver.  As difficulty increased as more ASICs were delivered by other companies it was hard to get out of the Butterfly preorders.  BFL preorders were selling left and right to the next sucker.  In the end the products delivered were not fast enough to warrant the price paid.  And complaints left and right.

I would not be putting and money in a preorder for anything longer than a month in the cryptoworld.  Too much can happen in a month to take that risk.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 11, 2014, 10:47:26 AM
Alpha have until 31st September to deliver. Bear that in mind.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: cosmomine on January 11, 2014, 03:45:38 PM
Can't wait to see a bright future for alpha
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: PatG9234 on January 11, 2014, 05:21:25 PM
One thing can be said about this ASIC company or ANY type of investment. If you don't have the money to invest, don't. If you do, hold on to it and hope that it does well.

I am holding onto my investment with hopes that this turns out well. A gamble is a gamble. I may lose, but so what? I am not spending anymore than I can afford to lose.

And yes, I am new to these forums - to anyone who cares about the amount of posts I've made.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: bearsworth on January 11, 2014, 11:18:01 PM
Hi Alpha Tech,

I am requesting a refund and I left an email to : [email protected] Please check it out and respond.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: RandomMiner on January 12, 2014, 02:48:35 AM
If this doesn't give you confidence in this company I don't know what will... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: ltcminingltd on January 12, 2014, 02:49:38 AM
From another section

Just a word of warning.....

I heard, from a friend of a friend who has been trying to locate the people at this company... no one has seen these 2 brothers who are behind it for weeks... the general consensus is that it is a scam and no one is going to be getting any of theses machines, at least not from this company.

The office, or company location is an empty house with a the company sign above... no one there to answer calls or even answer the door.
The mosque that these brother attend/attended no one has seen them there either, they have disappeared!

The friend who has been trying to locate these people has been doing so as they wanted to invest heavily in these systems but due to what they have discovered they will be staying well away from this company.....

Tread lightly when/if dealing with them.

Also, if this is incorrect then the owners of the company are more than welcome to contact me and i can pass any contact details for them onto the interested party! ;)

haha this made me laugh especially not being seen at the mosque lately

Ouch, and now all the refunds will stop being processed.....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jasinlee on January 12, 2014, 02:55:32 AM
I would leave but as soon as I do a bunch of new forum members (working for alpha tech or trolling) come along and start saying vague comments about how they can't wait to see alpha tech do well.  Please list all the good reasons why any sane person would buy a product (that does not exist) from alpha tech.  If you read back through the thread we have destroyed any argument for making a purchase.  The only reason you might want to buy one of their phantom machines is if you like loosing all your money to fraudsters.  I dunno I guess some people just want to loose their money.

Just cut it.
New forum members? Your registration date is Dec 2013. Check out mine, and my account on bitcointalk.org and then --> zip it.

BTW, it's lose and not loose. You should check your grammar AND your facts next time.

Also, do you care to name "the good reason why any sane person would buy from" jasinlee? It sounds as much if not more like a scam than Alpha-tech. So go over to their forum and post your allegations there.

I love how your best attempt to beat my logical arguments is to attack my spelling.  I don't proof read my comments and my spelling sucks. Who cares.  I think all the ASIC companys are scams so far not one has produced anything of any value.  What is this jasinlee you keep going on about?  I bet there scamming douches as well.  Have you invested in one of these alpha teck machines?  My real life mining rig arrived today and is up and running (still needs fine tuning).  Have fun waiting for alpha tech.  If I can stop those idiots getting richer then great, thats the plan.  I am not trying to protect morons I am trying to stop scammers getting rich.

I think I am being mentioned as a way of redirecting their frustration. We have provided a free open source PCB to the community, and helped on the klondike project to help bitcoin and litecoin. If someone would like proof of our dedication and coding capability, go look at the Aura Open Source PCB.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 12, 2014, 03:19:47 AM
From another section

Just a word of warning.....

I heard, from a friend of a friend who has been trying to locate the people at this company... no one has seen these 2 brothers who are behind it for weeks... the general consensus is that it is a scam and no one is going to be getting any of theses machines, at least not from this company.

The office, or company location is an empty house with a the company sign above... no one there to answer calls or even answer the door.
The mosque that these brother attend/attended no one has seen them there either, they have disappeared!

The friend who has been trying to locate these people has been doing so as they wanted to invest heavily in these systems but due to what they have discovered they will be staying well away from this company.....

Tread lightly when/if dealing with them.

Also, if this is incorrect then the owners of the company are more than welcome to contact me and i can pass any contact details for them onto the interested party! ;)

haha this made me laugh especially not being seen at the mosque lately

Ouch, and now all the refunds will stop being processed.....

Not true, they've just refunded me, hasn't shown up on the card balance yet, but PayPal have confirmed they've processed the refund in full. Tracking history is all there etc.

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but that comment from thcminer smells like bullshit to me...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 12, 2014, 05:40:45 AM
From another section

Just a word of warning.....

I heard, from a friend of a friend who has been trying to locate the people at this company... no one has seen these 2 brothers who are behind it for weeks... the general consensus is that it is a scam and no one is going to be getting any of theses machines, at least not from this company.

The office, or company location is an empty house with a the company sign above... no one there to answer calls or even answer the door.
The mosque that these brother attend/attended no one has seen them there either, they have disappeared!

The friend who has been trying to locate these people has been doing so as they wanted to invest heavily in these systems but due to what they have discovered they will be staying well away from this company.....

Tread lightly when/if dealing with them.

Also, if this is incorrect then the owners of the company are more than welcome to contact me and i can pass any contact details for them onto the interested party! ;)

haha this made me laugh especially not being seen at the mosque lately

Ouch, and now all the refunds will stop being processed.....

Not true, they've just refunded me, hasn't shown up on the card balance yet, but PayPal have confirmed they've processed the refund in full. Tracking history is all there etc.

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but that comment from thcminer smells like bullshit to me...

This is such bullshit, the brother works in that accountancy for years, and someone on reddit spoke to one of them (and got owned) in person...and both places open here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmsYxlgZ1IU&feature=youtu.be, im guessing they are currently upstairs or somewhere in m.akram and co while alpha is being refurbished? me not sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmsYxlgZ1IU&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: diego1000 on January 12, 2014, 07:53:11 AM
Hi everyone.

Since I pre-ordered, I would like to ask the following question:

Why would any company that is a scam:

-not ask for 100% up-front (/cue previous scams now)
-accept paypal or credit cards (90 days of protection....barely a week has passed and they gave several updates)
-put their own family accounting firm at risk
-drag the name of an established firm from India through the mud (more important still....why would that firm go along with it)

Seems to me, that they're trying to make this work, but maybe I'm dreaming.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: mux on January 12, 2014, 09:57:46 AM
It is clear, to me, that "Risk n°1: Alpha-t is a scam" is no longer a risk.
Remains 2 risks:
Risk n°2: Alpha-t tries but fails at delivering
Risk n°3: The scrypt markets crash and burn before the asics come

From what I'm seeing so far, and from my experience with interacting with startups, Risk n°2 is acceptable to my own risk tolerance.
As for Risk n°3, well, the power consumption is definitely migitating that.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 12, 2014, 10:04:56 AM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 12, 2014, 10:11:55 AM
thinking about it all they would have to do is make it very clear on their website that its an investment and there are risks. Then the DSR would not apply as you would no longer be a customer
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: thcminer on January 12, 2014, 10:37:26 AM
From another section

Just a word of warning.....

I heard, from a friend of a friend who has been trying to locate the people at this company... no one has seen these 2 brothers who are behind it for weeks... the general consensus is that it is a scam and no one is going to be getting any of theses machines, at least not from this company.

The office, or company location is an empty house with a the company sign above... no one there to answer calls or even answer the door.
The mosque that these brother attend/attended no one has seen them there either, they have disappeared!

The friend who has been trying to locate these people has been doing so as they wanted to invest heavily in these systems but due to what they have discovered they will be staying well away from this company.....

Tread lightly when/if dealing with them.

Also, if this is incorrect then the owners of the company are more than welcome to contact me and i can pass any contact details for them onto the interested party! ;)

haha this made me laugh especially not being seen at the mosque lately

Ouch, and now all the refunds will stop being processed.....

Not true, they've just refunded me, hasn't shown up on the card balance yet, but PayPal have confirmed they've processed the refund in full. Tracking history is all there etc.

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but that comment from thcminer smells like bullshit to me...

Before people start flamining me... look at my post, it states what i have been informed, it states if it is untrue then the owners of said company are more than welcome to contact me and i can then put them in touch with the interested party and then they can discuss it from there.
But, the person who is looking to invest in these systems is going in at the deep end.. were talking 6 figures he is willing to spend on these miners. These are serious people who want to make a serious investment, know Manchester very very well indeed.... and they can not even get hold of them... so yes it does smell fishy to me... hence why i posted a warning out there for others, it is entirely up to others if they choose to act or not based upon this information.

If it is untrue, or as said so exquisitely "Bullshit"... then i will of course retract my comments and apologize to said company  ;)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 12, 2014, 11:10:14 AM
Can you guys PLEASE stop attacking each other on a personal level? It's weekend ffs and my battery is almost empty, i really don't want to look through the last posts again and tempban ppl because they can't control themself.

We've banned many accounts from Fibonacci's thread who couldn't behave, new and old ones, this WILL happen again if you can't control it so please, watch your language and stay on topic!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: realfruit on January 12, 2014, 12:58:34 PM
thcminer is a big big liar so you can stop your crap anytime homie
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 12, 2014, 03:31:00 PM
realfruit banned for 7 days
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: worldlybedouin on January 12, 2014, 03:57:24 PM
realfruit banned for 7 days

Appreciate your efforts Sy on trying to keep folks on topic and not getting into personal attacks.

On that note, I'm seeing 50 pages on this thread and of those not so many posts from Alpha Tech.  I think they should really be in active and vigilant on this thread to help smooth some of these questions/acusiations out.  Their sporatic responses only serve to add fuel to the fire.   :(
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 12, 2014, 04:21:19 PM
Just re-read the last pages, retro banned for 7 days too, issued a warning to another troll - I've asked nicely and you wouldn't listen...

If you can't stay on topic create another thread, if you repeat yourself i will ban you for trolling, simple as that. Everyone is allowed to post their arguments, this is a free forum (with rules of course) but repeating yourself won't make things more clear or more understandable, everyone has the right to disagree, that's how the world turns, don't become a fanatic on the topic.

Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: diego1000 on January 12, 2014, 05:20:12 PM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

1.They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

2.They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.

1. Completely agree

2. Unless they default on delivering the product, I am a customer, not an investor, so that does not apply for now (if I missed something here, please feel free to correct me).
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Giga on January 12, 2014, 10:47:43 PM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

1.They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

2.They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.

1. Completely agree

2. Unless they default on delivering the product, I am a customer, not an investor, so that does not apply for now (if I missed something here, please feel free to correct me).

so if i understand this correctly, technically the UK government can shutdown alpha tech right now due to them violating distance selling laws ?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 12, 2014, 11:34:39 PM
As of yet they are not in violation of any law (well technically anyway). However, customers are sold a product which does not yet exist and there are certain risks, because their very money is being used to develop the product. So Alpha have used pre-ordering to raise capital for product development and have not informed customers of this. If anything goes wrong with Alpha any judge would take a very dim view of this business malpractice however the consequences will not be too severe for the owners.

Due to the known risks involved (or calculated contingency) Alpha have changed their company address from the family's home address: 3 MOTCOMBE FARM ROAD, HEALD GREEN,
CHEADLE, CHESHIRE, SK8 3RW, ENGLAND. to an office registered address next to their accountancy firms office. They have also removed any directors with a reputation to lose (ie chartered accountants) from official posts in the company so if (or when) they fail they won't have a disqualification which could potentially damage their accountancy business.

So now the youngest brother is the director, so failure and disqualification from company directorship will not affect him in the future, considering the potential hundreds of thousands of pounds they could make from this.

One thing is for sure though, if Alpha does run off with peoples money or pulls a BFL, they better change their home address, because there will be a lot of angry people turning up at their doorstep...

Disclaimer: The address and all details provided are all part of public records and may be found on Companies House website.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on January 12, 2014, 11:44:21 PM
As of yet they are not in violation of any law (well technically anyway). However, customers are sold a product which does not yet exist and there are certain risks, because their very money is being used to develop the product. So Alpha have used pre-ordering to raise capital for product development and have not informed customers of this. If anything goes wrong with Alpha any judge would take a very dim view of this business malpractice however the consequences will not be too severe for the owners.

Due to the known risks involved (or calculated contingency) Alpha have changed their company address from the family's home address: 3 MOTCOMBE FARM ROAD, HEALD GREEN,
CHEADLE, CHESHIRE, SK8 3RW, ENGLAND. to an office registered address next to their accountancy firms office. They have also removed any directors with a reputation to lose (ie chartered accountants) from official posts in the company so if (or when) they fail they won't have a disqualification which could potentially damage their accountancy business.

So now the youngest brother is the director, so failure and disqualification from company directorship will not affect him in the future, considering the potential hundreds of thousands of pounds they could make from this.

One thing is for sure though, if Alpha does run off with peoples money or pulls a BFL, they better change their home address, because there will be a lot of angry people turning up at their doorstep...

Disclaimer: The address and all details provided are all part of public records and may be found on Companies House website.

Stop lieing. One of the directors is a Chartered Certified Accountant (Mohammed Jafar Akram), the one who is not a director is a Certified Accountant. The son is more qualified than father...... so what you said is not true i am afraid... You can check this on their website makramco.com

You also do know in their terms of order , it says all this.... shipment is in q2/q3........ you accept liability if you accept their contract. In effect they are like kickstarter...

Please do not post people's home addresses.... ADMIN should delete this or ban the user.

The home address was changed long time ago.. i remember them moving into new office recently....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 12, 2014, 11:46:44 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: artilectinc on January 12, 2014, 11:50:20 PM
As of yet they are not in violation of any law (well technically anyway). However, customers are sold a product which does not yet exist and there are certain risks, because their very money is being used to develop the product. So Alpha have used pre-ordering to raise capital for product development and have not informed customers of this. If anything goes wrong with Alpha any judge would take a very dim view of this business malpractice however the consequences will not be too severe for the owners.

Due to the known risks involved (or calculated contingency) Alpha have changed their company address from the family's home address: 3 MOTCOMBE FARM ROAD, HEALD GREEN,
CHEADLE, CHESHIRE, SK8 3RW, ENGLAND. to an office registered address next to their accountancy firms office. They have also removed any directors with a reputation to lose (ie chartered accountants) from official posts in the company so if (or when) they fail they won't have a disqualification which could potentially damage their accountancy business.

So now the youngest brother is the director, so failure and disqualification from company directorship will not affect him in the future, considering the potential hundreds of thousands of pounds they could make from this.

One thing is for sure though, if Alpha does run off with peoples money or pulls a BFL, they better change their home address, because there will be a lot of angry people turning up at their doorstep...

Disclaimer: The address and all details provided are all part of public records and may be found on Companies House website.

I have a private corporation that operates in a similar way.  Corporate office details are the same as home office details.  Since I have nothing to hide to my investors I do not worry about the overlap.  But I can see that Alpha fears some of the repercussions from not fulfilling on the promises so they are now protecting themselves from it.

I'm not saying it is a scam but they are just being a little defensive.  My biggest issue is the delay in bringing the ASICs to market.  Fabrication is slow, I expected it but it seems that the founder of Alpha did not have the capital to support the production.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 13, 2014, 12:03:27 AM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

1.They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

2.They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.

1. Completely agree

2. Unless they default on delivering the product, I am a customer, not an investor, so that does not apply for now (if I missed something here, please feel free to correct me).

so if i understand this correctly, technically the UK government can shutdown alpha tech right now due to them violating distance selling laws ?

Hello there, my name is Fiaz Malik and I work at Alpha Technology as a customer service adviser, with regards to the DSR, I assure you we have looked into this and have been in touch with the relevant governmental departments, so I can confirm to you we are complying with them. Specifically, our products are being produced per order, as such if an individual forfeits their deposit, it would mean the investment we have put into their product has been wasted and we would have been put at a loss. The reason our policy has higher cancellation fees over time is because our investment into the product gets more costly over time. This puts us into the category of individual based products due to prior investment as this is not stock that already exists. Having said that this only relates to deposits and you do have, from the date you pay in full up to seven days after receiving the product to request a full refund. I hope I have cleared this up for you and if not please feel free to email our team for a full response.

Regards,

Fiaz.

+11111111111111111111111111

Nice to meet you Fiaz :)... You have now shut up a lot of "haters", i hope you stay here long and ignore the obvious trolls... and respond to genuine questions. As you have your picture up as well, it is good consolidation to us...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SpacedCowboy on January 13, 2014, 12:18:25 AM
As of yet they are not in violation of any law (well technically anyway). However, customers are sold a product which does not yet exist and there are certain risks, because their very money is being used to develop the product. So Alpha have used pre-ordering to raise capital for product development and have not informed customers of this. If anything goes wrong with Alpha any judge would take a very dim view of this business malpractice however the consequences will not be too severe for the owners.

Due to the known risks involved (or calculated contingency) Alpha have changed their company address from the family's home address: 3 MOTCOMBE FARM ROAD, HEALD GREEN,
CHEADLE, CHESHIRE, SK8 3RW, ENGLAND. to an office registered address next to their accountancy firms office. They have also removed any directors with a reputation to lose (ie chartered accountants) from official posts in the company so if (or when) they fail they won't have a disqualification which could potentially damage their accountancy business.

So now the youngest brother is the director, so failure and disqualification from company directorship will not affect him in the future, considering the potential hundreds of thousands of pounds they could make from this.

One thing is for sure though, if Alpha does run off with peoples money or pulls a BFL, they better change their home address, because there will be a lot of angry people turning up at their doorstep...

Disclaimer: The address and all details provided are all part of public records and may be found on Companies House website.

I have a private corporation that operates in a similar way.  Corporate office details are the same as home office details.  Since I have nothing to hide to my investors I do not worry about the overlap.  But I can see that Alpha fears some of the repercussions from not fulfilling on the promises so they are now protecting themselves from it.

I'm not saying it is a scam but they are just being a little defensive.  My biggest issue is the delay in bringing the ASICs to market.  Fabrication is slow, I expected it but it seems that the founder of Alpha did not have the capital to support the production.

I have owned and sold small businesses in the past, and it's common practice to isolate the business from ones private life; in fact it's pretty much the *purpose* for a small business, otherwise we'd have a whole lot more sole traders.

Go to any lawyer or accountant and they'll recommend setting things up so that if the business folds (as most do), you are as isolated as possible from the consequences. Apart from them having taken sound financial advice and acted on it, there's no conclusion to draw from their company structure.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: diego1000 on January 13, 2014, 12:18:53 AM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

1.They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

2.They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.

1. Completely agree

2. Unless they default on delivering the product, I am a customer, not an investor, so that does not apply for now (if I missed something here, please feel free to correct me).

so if i understand this correctly, technically the UK government can shutdown alpha tech right now due to them violating distance selling laws ?

Hello there, my name is Fiaz Malik and I work at Alpha Technology as a customer service adviser, with regards to the DSR, I assure you we have looked into this and have been in touch with the relevant governmental departments, so I can confirm to you we are complying with them. Specifically, our products are being produced per order, as such if an individual forfeits their deposit, it would mean the investment we have put into their product has been wasted and we would have been put at a loss. The reason our policy has higher cancellation fees over time is because our investment into the product gets more costly over time. This puts us into the category of individual based products due to prior investment as this is not stock that already exists. Having said that this only relates to deposits and you do have, from the date you pay in full up to seven days after receiving the product to request a full refund. I hope I have cleared this up for you and if not please feel free to email our team for a full response.

Regards,

Fiaz.

Hi Fiaz,

first off, thank you for showing up and posting here.

I am a pre order customer Order #7658 and am as worried about internet rumors as the next guy.

I understand, that there are people here (and elsewhere), that post negativity because they are either promoting their own product, or don't want anyone else to have what you produce, because of the hashrate going up.

Having said that, you (that is to say Alpha T) need to provide updates (the more the better) and need to be transparent and available (in person, for those in your neighborhood).

I would like nothing more, then to keep believing in you (you have my hard-earned money right now).

Make me a believer and shut up your nay sayers!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 13, 2014, 12:53:16 AM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: diego1000 on January 13, 2014, 01:29:26 AM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

1.They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

2.They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.

1. Completely agree

2. Unless they default on delivering the product, I am a customer, not an investor, so that does not apply for now (if I missed something here, please feel free to correct me).

so if i understand this correctly, technically the UK government can shutdown alpha tech right now due to them violating distance selling laws ?

Hello there, my name is Fiaz Malik and I work at Alpha Technology as a customer service adviser, with regards to the DSR, I assure you we have looked into this and have been in touch with the relevant governmental departments, so I can confirm to you we are complying with them. Specifically, our products are being produced per order, as such if an individual forfeits their deposit, it would mean the investment we have put into their product has been wasted and we would have been put at a loss. The reason our policy has higher cancellation fees over time is because our investment into the product gets more costly over time. This puts us into the category of individual based products due to prior investment as this is not stock that already exists. Having said that this only relates to deposits and you do have, from the date you pay in full up to seven days after receiving the product to request a full refund. I hope I have cleared this up for you and if not please feel free to email our team for a full response.

Regards,

Fiaz.

Hi Fiaz,

first off, thank you for showing up and posting here.

I am a pre order customer Order #7658 and am as worried about internet rumors as the next guy.

I understand, that there are people here (and elsewhere), that post negativity because they are either promoting their own product, or don't want anyone else to have what you produce, because of the hashrate going up.

Having said that, you (that is to say Alpha T) need to provide updates (the more the better) and need to be transparent and available (in person, for those in your neighborhood).

I would like nothing more, then to keep believing in you (you have my hard-earned money right now).

Make me a believer and shut up your nay sayers!

Firstly my credentials can be verified by going to the first page of this thread and having a look at the AlphaTechnology accounts signature.

Hi Diego, thanks for your response. Now that were past what has been a very busy pre-order period for us we are now focused on putting ourselves out there and releasing updates as often as we can. You can expect us to release a roadmap very soon detailing what to expect over the coming months. Our goal has always been to try and be as transparent as possible, you can check both our website and our partners and verify both our history as respected accountants with all official accounting governing bodies aswell as our partners success in their industry, working with such companies as Intel, Texas Instruments, Altera etc.

I will be posting more soon and hope we can continue this discussion further.

Fiaz.

Hi Fiaz,

please understand (and this bears repeating...please understand), that everyone that pre-ordered has dissected all the information on your website and every possible video on youtube, as well as making several (numerous) inquiries on google, to find out, who you are, who you are affiliated with, what you had for breakfast, etc.

What we (maybe I shouldn't be talking for everyone else here)...what I want, is information on the process. You announced end of Q2 for delivery (great!), but I haven't seen anything being produced yet. A video from India (one that's a little better than the previous one) would go a long way.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way Fiaz. I repeat that I am a believer (for now at least) and I would like to be proven right.

Looking forward to your response.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Bogart on January 13, 2014, 02:15:41 AM
It is clear, to me, that "Risk n°1: Alpha-t is a scam" is no longer a risk.
Remains 2 risks:
Risk n°2: Alpha-t tries but fails at delivering
Risk n°3: The scrypt markets crash and burn before the asics come

From what I'm seeing so far, and from my experience with interacting with startups, Risk n°2 is acceptable to my own risk tolerance.
As for Risk n°3, well, the power consumption is definitely migitating that.

My concern at the moment is Risk #4: That a competitor brings a product to market first and raises the difficulty way up.  Right now it's looking like the GridChip hybrid miners could ship soon.  While the pricing in its current single-chip USB form is still high, it will surely not be long before multi-chip boards appear.  (Assuming they're for real.)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: medialab101 on January 13, 2014, 02:17:13 AM
Quote
Hi Fiaz,

please understand (and this bears repeating...please understand), that everyone that pre-ordered has dissected all the information on your website and every possible video on youtube, as well as making several (numerous) inquiries on google, to find out, who you are, who you are affiliated with, what you had for breakfast, etc.

What we (maybe I shouldn't be talking for everyone else here)...what I want, is information on the process. You announced end of Q2 for delivery (great!), but I haven't seen anything being produced yet. A video from India (one that's a little better than the previous one) would go a long way.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way Fiaz. I repeat that I am a believer (for now at least) and I would like to be proven right.

Looking forward to your response.

+1
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: artilectinc on January 13, 2014, 02:20:44 AM
It is clear, to me, that "Risk n°1: Alpha-t is a scam" is no longer a risk.
Remains 2 risks:
Risk n°2: Alpha-t tries but fails at delivering
Risk n°3: The scrypt markets crash and burn before the asics come

From what I'm seeing so far, and from my experience with interacting with startups, Risk n°2 is acceptable to my own risk tolerance.
As for Risk n°3, well, the power consumption is definitely migitating that.

My concern at the moment is Risk #4: That a competitor brings a product to market first and raises the difficulty way up.  Right now it's looking like the GridChip hybrid miners could ship soon.  While the pricing in its current single-chip USB form is still high, it will surely not be long before multi-chip boards appear.  (Assuming they're for real.)

So you haven't even suspected that FPGA/ASICs are already in heavy production by private investors and are currently ramping difficulty from 1000 to 5000?  You must me new here.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 13, 2014, 02:25:38 AM
As of yet they are not in violation of any law (well technically anyway). However, customers are sold a product which does not yet exist and there are certain risks, because their very money is being used to develop the product. So Alpha have used pre-ordering to raise capital for product development and have not informed customers of this. If anything goes wrong with Alpha any judge would take a very dim view of this business malpractice however the consequences will not be too severe for the owners.

Due to the known risks involved (or calculated contingency) Alpha have changed their company address from the family's home address: 3 MOTCOMBE FARM ROAD, HEALD GREEN, CHEADLE, CHESHIRE, SK8 3RW, ENGLAND. to an office registered address next to their accountancy firms office. They have also removed any directors with a reputation to lose (ie chartered accountants) from official posts in the company so if (or when) they fail they won't have a disqualification which could potentially damage their accountancy business.

So now the youngest brother is the director, so failure and disqualification from company directorship will not affect him in the future, considering the potential hundreds of thousands of pounds they could make from this.

One thing is for sure though, if Alpha does run off with peoples money or pulls a BFL, they better change their home address, because there will be a lot of angry people turning up at their doorstep...

Disclaimer: The address and all details provided are all part of public records and may be found on Companies House website.

Stop lieing. One of the directors is a Chartered Certified Accountant (Mohammed Jafar Akram), the one who is not a director is a Certified Accountant. The son is more qualified than father...... so what you said is not true i am afraid... You can check this on their website makramco.com

You also do know in their terms of order , it says all this.... shipment is in q2/q3........ you accept liability if you accept their contract. In effect they are like kickstarter...

Please do not post people's home addresses.... ADMIN should delete this or ban the user.

The home address was changed long time ago.. i remember them moving into new office recently....

I was not "lieing" as I have no reason to. His appointment was very recent (29/13/13) and I had not seen it. The only director up until then was the young "engineer" brother.

The home address that you refer to was in fact the companies registered address and as such is part of public record. I have not revealed anything private therefore have done nothing wrong.

If that house goes on sale, its panic time...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: medialab101 on January 13, 2014, 03:07:21 AM
So we finally get an Alpha-T rep participating in the forums and you guys think your time is better spent attacking each other. Back on topic please.

So Fiaz, we understand now that Alpha is a real company with real business ties to a real manufacturer who is going to (at least try to) implement your designs. Now what we are interested in are tech specs and day-to-day real progress on the ground. We need a detailed road-map of the design and implementation process, we need details on the code the chips will be running, we need a promise that people in the community will be able to get hands-on with prototypes or fabricated chips at some stage. Otherwise I'm afraid that as the one-month refund window approaches more and more people will be dropping out, myself included.

But of course we wish you well and if we can reassure us that you have a plan and have the ability to execute that plan, we will gladly fork over our money. So what specific details of the manufacturing process can you provide us with?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: artilectinc on January 13, 2014, 03:32:34 AM
So we finally get an Alpha-T rep participating in the forums and you guys think your time is better spent attacking each other. Back on topic please.

So Fiaz, we understand now that Alpha is a real company with real business ties to a real manufacturer who is going to (at least try to) implement your designs. Now what we are interested in are tech specs and day-to-day real progress on the ground. We need a detailed road-map of the design and implementation process, we need details on the code the chips will be running, we need a promise that people in the community will be able to get hands-on with prototypes or fabricated chips at some stage. Otherwise I'm afraid that as the one-month refund window approaches more and more people will be dropping out, myself included.

But of course we wish you well and if we can reassure us that you have a plan and have the ability to execute that plan, we will gladly fork over our money. So what specific details of the manufacturing process can you provide us with?

Welcome to the conversation!

Bashing me for wanting to expose a troll is hardly worth mentioning, since Fiaz decided to answer MY post!

As for the rest of your post, you're correct. We all want some answers.

Your approach, however, leaves a little to be desired on the side of diplomacy.

I am in the same boat as you are, with the same 4 weeks or so to re-coup my money if I have to, but at least I understand that you can not possibly ask for all the answers in a day.

I repeat....for now, I'll be happy with a video from India, showing the hardware working as planned.

The best thing I can do for you blind believers is to provide a link to a calculator http://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator

At even a low %1 inflation rate per diff adjustment the $500/m revenue per month will not bring you back to break even o ver 10 months.  The shipping date relative to expected difficult means that Alpha rigs will be unprofitable when they ship.  I"m not saying they are scams only that buyers are putting up too much capital at risk for too long a period to warrant a good return.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: diego1000 on January 13, 2014, 03:38:31 AM
So we finally get an Alpha-T rep participating in the forums and you guys think your time is better spent attacking each other. Back on topic please.

So Fiaz, we understand now that Alpha is a real company with real business ties to a real manufacturer who is going to (at least try to) implement your designs. Now what we are interested in are tech specs and day-to-day real progress on the ground. We need a detailed road-map of the design and implementation process, we need details on the code the chips will be running, we need a promise that people in the community will be able to get hands-on with prototypes or fabricated chips at some stage. Otherwise I'm afraid that as the one-month refund window approaches more and more people will be dropping out, myself included.

But of course we wish you well and if we can reassure us that you have a plan and have the ability to execute that plan, we will gladly fork over our money. So what specific details of the manufacturing process can you provide us with?

Welcome to the conversation!

Bashing me for wanting to expose a troll is hardly worth mentioning, since Fiaz decided to answer MY post!

As for the rest of your post, you're correct. We all want some answers.

Your approach, however, leaves a little to be desired on the side of diplomacy.

I am in the same boat as you are, with the same 4 weeks or so to re-coup my money if I have to, but at least I understand that you can not possibly ask for all the answers in a day.

I repeat....for now, I'll be happy with a video from India, showing the hardware working as planned.

The best thing I can do for you blind believers is to provide a link to a calculator http://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator

At even a low %1 inflation rate per diff adjustment the $500/m revenue per month will not bring you back to break even o ver 10 months.  The shipping date relative to expected difficult means that Alpha rigs will be unprofitable when they ship.  I"m not saying they are scams only that buyers are putting up too much capital at risk for too long a period to warrant a good return.

Shipping is supposed to happen at the end of Q2...or in other words, by the end of June. If this is true, your calculations are way off.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: artilectinc on January 13, 2014, 04:08:04 AM
So we finally get an Alpha-T rep participating in the forums and you guys think your time is better spent attacking each other. Back on topic please.

So Fiaz, we understand now that Alpha is a real company with real business ties to a real manufacturer who is going to (at least try to) implement your designs. Now what we are interested in are tech specs and day-to-day real progress on the ground. We need a detailed road-map of the design and implementation process, we need details on the code the chips will be running, we need a promise that people in the community will be able to get hands-on with prototypes or fabricated chips at some stage. Otherwise I'm afraid that as the one-month refund window approaches more and more people will be dropping out, myself included.

But of course we wish you well and if we can reassure us that you have a plan and have the ability to execute that plan, we will gladly fork over our money. So what specific details of the manufacturing process can you provide us with?

Welcome to the conversation!

Bashing me for wanting to expose a troll is hardly worth mentioning, since Fiaz decided to answer MY post!

As for the rest of your post, you're correct. We all want some answers.

Your approach, however, leaves a little to be desired on the side of diplomacy.

I am in the same boat as you are, with the same 4 weeks or so to re-coup my money if I have to, but at least I understand that you can not possibly ask for all the answers in a day.

I repeat....for now, I'll be happy with a video from India, showing the hardware working as planned.

The best thing I can do for you blind believers is to provide a link to a calculator http://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator

At even a low %1 inflation rate per diff adjustment the $500/m revenue per month will not bring you back to break even o ver 10 months.  The shipping date relative to expected difficult means that Alpha rigs will be unprofitable when they ship.  I"m not saying they are scams only that buyers are putting up too much capital at risk for too long a period to warrant a good return.

Shipping is supposed to happen at the end of Q2...or in other words, by the end of June. If this is true, your calculations are way off.

That is why I'm saying you are so optimistic.  You have a heavy bias.  The target is shipping  booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014. Live updates shall be provided on exact shipping date. Shipping is worldwide.

Which means anywhere between April 2014 and September 2014.    So mean is July 2014.  But honestly it will probably be September 2014.  Try to realize you are diluted.  It will help you in the long run.  Shipments will start Cot or Sept.  I've been through this before. Heed the warning.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: diego1000 on January 13, 2014, 06:13:21 AM
So we finally get an Alpha-T rep participating in the forums and you guys think your time is better spent attacking each other. Back on topic please.

So Fiaz, we understand now that Alpha is a real company with real business ties to a real manufacturer who is going to (at least try to) implement your designs. Now what we are interested in are tech specs and day-to-day real progress on the ground. We need a detailed road-map of the design and implementation process, we need details on the code the chips will be running, we need a promise that people in the community will be able to get hands-on with prototypes or fabricated chips at some stage. Otherwise I'm afraid that as the one-month refund window approaches more and more people will be dropping out, myself included.

But of course we wish you well and if we can reassure us that you have a plan and have the ability to execute that plan, we will gladly fork over our money. So what specific details of the manufacturing process can you provide us with?

Welcome to the conversation!

Bashing me for wanting to expose a troll is hardly worth mentioning, since Fiaz decided to answer MY post!

As for the rest of your post, you're correct. We all want some answers.

Your approach, however, leaves a little to be desired on the side of diplomacy.

I am in the same boat as you are, with the same 4 weeks or so to re-coup my money if I have to, but at least I understand that you can not possibly ask for all the answers in a day.

I repeat....for now, I'll be happy with a video from India, showing the hardware working as planned.

The best thing I can do for you blind believers is to provide a link to a calculator http://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator

At even a low %1 inflation rate per diff adjustment the $500/m revenue per month will not bring you back to break even o ver 10 months.  The shipping date relative to expected difficult means that Alpha rigs will be unprofitable when they ship.  I"m not saying they are scams only that buyers are putting up too much capital at risk for too long a period to warrant a good return.

Shipping is supposed to happen at the end of Q2...or in other words, by the end of June. If this is true, your calculations are way off.

That is why I'm saying you are so optimistic.  You have a heavy bias.  The target is shipping  booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014. Live updates shall be provided on exact shipping date. Shipping is worldwide.

Which means anywhere between April 2014 and September 2014.    So mean is July 2014.  But honestly it will probably be September 2014.  Try to realize you are diluted.  It will help you in the long run.  Shipments will start Cot or Sept.  I've been through this before. Heed the warning.

Duly noted!

I will let you know, when I get my unit.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 13, 2014, 07:15:12 AM
Done cleaning up, countless posts deleted
Warnings Issued: 3
Tempbans: artilectinc.com, diego1000
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: r2vape on January 13, 2014, 07:28:27 AM
Thank you Sy for cleaning the mess.

I would like to encourage Fiaz to post as much information as possible to make his current customers satisfied enough not to withdraw through refunds.

Indeed it is a gamble placing money down with no concrete information (in terms of video and clear information about the units) and only just specs on a web page which can change without notice.

I am biased as I also have pre-orders in and wish to see them fulfilled.  If this is true, I will be ordering more units without hesitation.  Running GPUs from home paying 0.35c /kwh is straining  ;)

These units from Alpha-T will do wonders to efficiency and reduce the carbon footprint we are causing from our mining activities.

Cheers

r2vape
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 13, 2014, 09:02:13 AM
All alpha tech have to do if they want people like me to stop screaming shenanigans is comply with these things we call laws. They are here to protect the consumer.

1.They must comply with uk distance selling regulations

2.They must warn people on their website that they are investors not customers and that they might loose all their money.

If they did that I would have zero problem with alpha tech.

1. Completely agree

2. Unless they default on delivering the product, I am a customer, not an investor, so that does not apply for now (if I missed something here, please feel free to correct me).

so if i understand this correctly, technically the UK government can shutdown alpha tech right now due to them violating distance selling laws ?

Hello there, my name is Fiaz Malik and I work at Alpha Technology as a customer service adviser, with regards to the DSR, I assure you we have looked into this and have been in touch with the relevant governmental departments, so I can confirm to you we are complying with them. Specifically, our products are being produced per order, as such if an individual forfeits their deposit, it would mean the investment we have put into their product has been wasted and we would have been put at a loss. The reason our policy has higher cancellation fees over time is because our investment into the product gets more costly over time. This puts us into the category of individual based products due to prior investment as this is not stock that already exists. Having said that this only relates to deposits and you do have, from the date you pay in full up to seven days after receiving the product to request a full refund. I hope I have cleared this up for you and if not please feel free to email our team for a full response.

Regards,

Fiaz.

Hello Fiaz, why is there no warnings on your website that this is an investment in a start up company rather then a normal purchase.  You should be warning your customers that they might lose their money or never get the product.  I hope you guys mean well but no one has a crystal ball and anything could go wrong.  You should not take anymore money from anyone without creating a very clear disclaimer informing them of the risks, otherwise if things go wrong you could find yourself in a tricky legal situation.  You should also send everyone who has made an order a disclaimer and get them to sign it or issue them a refund.

Also why not do a live streaming video with questions and answers from your customers, that way we will know that there really is someone putting their face to this project at Alpha Technology.  I find your business practices highly suspicious and at the moment you are just a profile with a passport photo which would not be hard to fake.  Let the community get to know you on video.  Until then my position is the same as it has been since I joined this thread, and that is that you are cowboys or scammers.  I would love to be wrong.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 13, 2014, 11:05:28 AM
So we finally get an Alpha-T rep participating in the forums and you guys think your time is better spent attacking each other. Back on topic please.

So Fiaz, we understand now that Alpha is a real company with real business ties to a real manufacturer who is going to (at least try to) implement your designs. Now what we are interested in are tech specs and day-to-day real progress on the ground. We need a detailed road-map of the design and implementation process, we need details on the code the chips will be running, we need a promise that people in the community will be able to get hands-on with prototypes or fabricated chips at some stage. Otherwise I'm afraid that as the one-month refund window approaches more and more people will be dropping out, myself included.

But of course we wish you well and if we can reassure us that you have a plan and have the ability to execute that plan, we will gladly fork over our money. So what specific details of the manufacturing process can you provide us with?

Welcome to the conversation!

Bashing me for wanting to expose a troll is hardly worth mentioning, since Fiaz decided to answer MY post!

As for the rest of your post, you're correct. We all want some answers.

Your approach, however, leaves a little to be desired on the side of diplomacy.

I am in the same boat as you are, with the same 4 weeks or so to re-coup my money if I have to, but at least I understand that you can not possibly ask for all the answers in a day.

I repeat....for now, I'll be happy with a video from India, showing the hardware working as planned.

The best thing I can do for you blind believers is to provide a link to a calculator http://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator

At even a low %1 inflation rate per diff adjustment the $500/m revenue per month will not bring you back to break even o ver 10 months.  The shipping date relative to expected difficult means that Alpha rigs will be unprofitable when they ship.  I"m not saying they are scams only that buyers are putting up too much capital at risk for too long a period to warrant a good return.

Shipping is supposed to happen at the end of Q2...or in other words, by the end of June. If this is true, your calculations are way off.

That is why I'm saying you are so optimistic.  You have a heavy bias.  The target is shipping  booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014. Live updates shall be provided on exact shipping date. Shipping is worldwide.

Which means anywhere between April 2014 and September 2014.    So mean is July 2014.  But honestly it will probably be September 2014.  Try to realize you are diluted.  It will help you in the long run.  Shipments will start Cot or Sept.  I've been through this before. Heed the warning.

Please post this in the corresponding thread https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12458.30 where this has been extensively discussed. It does not add at all to the discussion about development.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Sy on January 13, 2014, 11:09:15 AM
Please post this in the corresponding thread https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12458.30 where this has been extensively discussed. It does not add at all to the discussion about development.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: SVK on January 13, 2014, 12:37:37 PM
This is just my personal opinion and is based only on what I think.

Alpha - 1 brother is engineer and have a rough idea what might be involved to make this happen but has no knowledge or ability to produce anything related to Scrypt ASIC

Dexcel - brothers teamed up and contracted DEXCEL to get this whole project done with ALPHA funding

ALPHA - is funding this "part/whole" operation from pre-orders money

Info which everyone is craving for isn't there because DEXCEL is the one who knows exactly what is going on.

By mentality of the forum members ALPHA would have to be on the phone to DEXCEL for updates at least twice a day to keep forum members satisfied.
Every single person wants to know Power usage, Hashing power, Price and shipping date and every single person want this information not yesterday but 200 years ago.

I'm really sorry but I'm facking annoyed like fack reading them facking childish comments and don't facking tell me not to facking read this facked up thread.

I'm as interested as YOU but I can't afford to loose 5-10k so I didn't pre-order. Any hint from my last sentence ? Do not facking spent money if you can't afford to lose them.

I'm sorry SY but it is really ridiculous. 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kaz911 on January 13, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

Hello there, my name is Fiaz Malik and I work at Alpha Technology as a customer service adviser, with regards to the DSR, I assure you we have looked into this and have been in touch with the relevant governmental departments, so I can confirm to you we are complying with them. Specifically, our products are being produced per order, as such if an individual forfeits their deposit, it would mean the investment we have put into their product has been wasted and we would have been put at a loss. The reason our policy has higher cancellation fees over time is because our investment into the product gets more costly over time. This puts us into the category of individual based products due to prior investment as this is not stock that already exists. Having said that this only relates to deposits and you do have, from the date you pay in full up to seven days after receiving the product to request a full refund. I hope I have cleared this up for you and if not please feel free to email our team for a full response.

Regards,

Fiaz.

Hi Fiaz,

your "interpretation" of the DSR is not quite in line with what reality is like. If you ONLY sell a few - and EACH one is INDIVIDUALLY tailored to the customer on the customers individual REQUEST  - then you do fall under the "no rights of return" for custom product/DSR. But if you manufacture more than X number of units - then the DSR applies to you fully. That X number is up to the magistrate to decide - but normally we talk 2-20 items before you are liable 100% under DSR.

If you have a manufacturing line spitting out the product - and they all have same part number - then it is not only 2-20 that makes you fall under DSR.
Example: If you buy a Ford Escort with a (100%) completely  "custom" interior/exterior  - you can waive the DSR. But if the custom design combo is in your catalogue or website with specifications - and available for purchase or pre-order  - it is not considered CUSTOM and DSR is applicable from item 1.  There is plenty of case law behind it in the UK as other companies have been hit hard by having to comply with DSR despite they thought they had a way around it. But sorry - it ain't so mate.


Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Blazedout419 on January 13, 2014, 02:08:53 PM
Good luck on this investors customers.  ::)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 13, 2014, 05:01:13 PM

Hello there, my name is Fiaz Malik and I work at Alpha Technology as a customer service adviser, with regards to the DSR, I assure you we have looked into this and have been in touch with the relevant governmental departments, so I can confirm to you we are complying with them. Specifically, our products are being produced per order, as such if an individual forfeits their deposit, it would mean the investment we have put into their product has been wasted and we would have been put at a loss. The reason our policy has higher cancellation fees over time is because our investment into the product gets more costly over time. This puts us into the category of individual based products due to prior investment as this is not stock that already exists. Having said that this only relates to deposits and you do have, from the date you pay in full up to seven days after receiving the product to request a full refund. I hope I have cleared this up for you and if not please feel free to email our team for a full response.

Regards,

Fiaz.

Hi Fiaz,

your "interpretation" of the DSR is not quite in line with what reality is like. If you ONLY sell a few - and EACH one is INDIVIDUALLY tailored to the customer on the customers individual REQUEST  - then you do fall under the "no rights of return" for custom product/DSR. But if you manufacture more than X number of units - then the DSR applies to you fully. That X number is up to the magistrate to decide - but normally we talk 2-20 items before you are liable 100% under DSR.

If you have a manufacturing line spitting out the product - and they all have same part number - then it is not only 2-20 that makes you fall under DSR.
Example: If you buy a Ford Escort with a (100%) completely  "custom" interior/exterior  - you can waive the DSR. But if the custom design combo is in your catalogue or website with specifications - and available for purchase or pre-order  - it is not considered CUSTOM and DSR is applicable from item 1.  There is plenty of case law behind it in the UK as other companies have been hit hard by having to comply with DSR despite they thought they had a way around it. But sorry - it ain't so mate.

There is no x amount that any judge decides. It is either covered or not.

If the customer contacts the retailer requesting a specific product which the retailer has to manufacture based on the customers request then this is excluded from the 7 day DSR.

If the retailer places a product on sale, whether manufactured yet or not and a customer orders or places a deposit/pre-order for it, this is covered under DSR and the retailer has to accept the return and issue a refund with no ifs or buts.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Slipknot79 on January 13, 2014, 08:15:15 PM
Da roadmap oO Any development-pros in here to comment this? Oo

(http://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Timeline-Copy.png)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: tiagoengineer on January 14, 2014, 01:27:16 PM
Fiaz
 
I have wire transferred the funds for my purchase order #4873  on Wednesday the 8th and have not received a change in payment status on my account or received a response from the payments center.  Can you verify that the funds have been received.
 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 14, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
I have sent this personal message to Fiaz,    I have also posted it in response to him in this thread.  I have yet to recieve any response.

Sorry Sy if I am repeating myself but I feel it's important that he answer these questions.


Pm as follows.

Hello Fiaz, why is there no warnings on your website that this is an investment in a start up company rather then a normal purchase.  You should be warning your customers that they might lose their money or never get the product.  I hope you guys mean well but no one has a crystal ball and anything could go wrong.  You should not take anymore money from anyone without creating a very clear disclaimer informing them of the risks, otherwise if things go wrong you could find yourself in a tricky legal situation.  You should also send everyone who has made an order a disclaimer and get them to sign it or issue them a refund.

Also why not do a live streaming video with questions and answers from your customers, that way we will know that there really is someone putting their face to this project at Alpha Technology.  I find your business practices highly suspicious and at the moment you are just a profile with a passport photo which would not be hard to fake.  Let the community get to know you on video.  Until then my position is the same as it has been since I joined this thread, and that is that you are cowboys or scammers.  I would love to be wrong.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Phidian on January 14, 2014, 07:23:29 PM
Da roadmap oO Any development-pros in here to comment this? Oo

(http://alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Timeline-Copy.png)

That's it, albeit the optimistic version... No complicated if/then loops if problems arise in the verification stages, etc.

I'm looking forward to the detailed technical updates myself, hopefully they update us liberally with those.

I'm also interested to know who owns the various tasks in that roadmap? Is Dexcel doing everything or are there other subcontractors involved for PCB design, chassis development, software, and mass production?

-Phid  :)

 
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: rizzman on January 14, 2014, 07:55:00 PM
Hi AlphaTechnology,

    I am a large buyer of your product and have been following both the official and unofficial news surrounding your product and would like to assist in quelling the skepticism that has taken over the community while also answering some concerns of mine and others as well. Being a early KNCMiner backer, I am seeing a lot of similarities in what you are having to deal with as did KNC in the beginning. Which was both unfortunate yet promising at the same time.

I believe in what you are trying to accomplish and believe you should be given a chance before being judged. As such, I would like to take the time a try to air out some of these concern and see if it would be possible to schedule an open house event where the community can send a few representatives to meet with you and your team to ask questions and get direct responses to them.

As you can imagine it would go a long way to see who we are investing in especially considering the sizable amount of money involved in funding your venture. I know you are busy trying to move forward, and I do not want to detract from the ultimate goal however I cannot stress enough how valuable setting some time aside to meet your customers will be in solidifying the community behind you especially at such a critical point. Please give serious consideration to this, and let me know when you have availability and I will try to organize a small group of representatives to attend.

I will be forwarding this same message to you via email, posting on the forum, and gathering questions via the reddit post below while awaiting your response.

I look forward to hearing from you and wish you the best of luck with your endeavor.

Best Wishes,
David

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/1v7m8y/list_of_questions_for_alphat_technologies/
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
So 5 days ago I tried to cancel my pre-order and get a full refund, based on protection offered to consumer by distance selling regulations. After not having any response I emailed again, this time insisting they refund me fully or I would take this up with paypal.
Today Alpha T refunded me partially, keeping £70 "admin fee" explaining with this email that they dont believe they are subject to EU DSR laws, hence no full refund:

Quote
Hello Gus,

It is not against the EU Distance Selling Regulation. Our product is not a product in stock, it is a product that is designed and manufactured based on order quantity. Therefore you are in effect an investor kickstarter style. So our Terms of Order are void.

You  can contact the authorities or PayPal regarding this.

Alpha Technology Team

I will give paypal a ring tomorrow, but I would be wary of ordering anything from this company as it sounds like they are might be heading down the "investment that did not work out in the end" route to avoid repaying full deposits.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: rizzman on January 14, 2014, 08:15:11 PM
So 5 days ago I tried to cancel my pre-order and get a full refund, based on protection offered to consumer by distance selling regulations. After not having any response I emailed again, this time insisting they refund me fully or I would take this up with paypal.
Today Alpha T refunded me partially, keeping £70 "admin fee" explaining with this email that they dont believe they are subject to EU DSR laws, hence no full refund:

Quote
Hello Gus,

It is not against the EU Distance Selling Regulation. Our product is not a product in stock, it is a product that is designed and manufactured based on order quantity. Therefore you are in effect an investor kickstarter style. So our Terms of Order are void.

You  can contact the authorities or PayPal regarding this.

Alpha Technology Team

I will give paypal a ring tomorrow, but I would be wary of ordering anything from this company as it sounds like they are might be heading down the "investment that did not work out in the end" route to avoid repaying full deposits.

You said they refunded you "Partially" what does that mean... "Total - Admin fee"?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 14, 2014, 08:34:35 PM
So 5 days ago I tried to cancel my pre-order and get a full refund, based on protection offered to consumer by distance selling regulations. After not having any response I emailed again, this time insisting they refund me fully or I would take this up with paypal.
Today Alpha T refunded me partially, keeping £70 "admin fee" explaining with this email that they dont believe they are subject to EU DSR laws, hence no full refund:

Quote
Hello Gus,

It is not against the EU Distance Selling Regulation. Our product is not a product in stock, it is a product that is designed and manufactured based on order quantity. Therefore you are in effect an investor kickstarter style. So our Terms of Order are void.

You  can contact the authorities or PayPal regarding this.

Alpha Technology Team

I will give paypal a ring tomorrow, but I would be wary of ordering anything from this company as it sounds like they are might be heading down the "investment that did not work out in the end" route to avoid repaying full deposits.

The only person that needs to be wary is you.. your supposed to read terms and agreement before making an order...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 08:35:12 PM
correct, they have kept £70 admin fee. That goes against the EU Distance Selling Regulations and I'm pretty sure with their primary business primarily being accountants they are fully aware of that fact... so the whole thing seems to reek of dodgy way of doing business from its very start.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 08:37:24 PM
The only person that needs to be wary is you.. your supposed to read terms and agreement before making an order...

stop shilling for alpha t - if terms of sale breach DSR they are considered void.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 14, 2014, 08:38:33 PM
correct, they have kept £70 admin fee. That goes against the EU Distance Selling Regulations and I'm pretty sure with their primary business primarily being accountants they are fully aware of that fact... so the whole thing seems to reek of dodgy way of doing business from its very start.

getting anything done from DSR, is really slow, and they have probably found a loop hole, as to the classification of their product.. as you are in effect an investor/kickstarter type,, the product is not in stock and is being produced with regular updates etc. So good luck i guess....
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 14, 2014, 08:39:52 PM
The only person that needs to be wary is you.. your supposed to read terms and agreement before making an order...

stop shilling for alpha t - if terms of sale breach DSR they are considered void.

and you know because your an expert? you just read forums. Your intelligence has already been tested where you read their terms of agreement, and still decided to pre-order. What did you expect to happen? JUST Don't order
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: finnthecelt on January 14, 2014, 08:43:17 PM
The only person that needs to be wary is you.. your supposed to read terms and agreement before making an order...

stop shilling for alpha t - if terms of sale breach DSR they are considered void.

and you know because your an expert? you just read forums. Your intelligence has already been tested where you read their terms of agreement, and still decided to pre-order. What did you expect to happen? JUST Don't order

I read the terms and ran for my life. I posted very early on in this thread the risks. Yeah it's great if you can get an Asic and it actually performs to expectation but the way you have to get it? If ever? SHADY!
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: rizzman on January 14, 2014, 08:50:15 PM
Redacted
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 08:56:53 PM
correct, they have kept £70 admin fee. That goes against the EU Distance Selling Regulations and I'm pretty sure with their primary business primarily being accountants they are fully aware of that fact... so the whole thing seems to reek of dodgy way of doing business from its very start.

getting anything done from DSR, is really slow, and they have probably found a loop hole, as to the classification of their product.. as you are in effect an investor/kickstarter type,, the product is not in stock and is being produced with regular updates etc. So good luck i guess....

lol are you trying to persuade me not to bother getting my money back from them? getting money back via DSR is as simple as doing a calling visa and doing a chargeback. As an added bonus is has a negative effect on sellers visa services rating. Procedure is more or less the same with paypal.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 09:04:13 PM
The only person that needs to be wary is you.. your supposed to read terms and agreement before making an order...

stop shilling for alpha t - if terms of sale breach DSR they are considered void.

and you know because your an expert? you just read forums. Your intelligence has already been tested where you read their terms of agreement, and still decided to pre-order. What did you expect to happen? JUST Don't order

what I expected when ordering was a company that would adhere to EU laws.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: finnthecelt on January 14, 2014, 09:06:19 PM
The only person that needs to be wary is you.. your supposed to read terms and agreement before making an order...

stop shilling for alpha t - if terms of sale breach DSR they are considered void.

and you know because your an expert? you just read forums. Your intelligence has already been tested where you read their terms of agreement, and still decided to pre-order. What did you expect to happen? JUST Don't order

what I expected when ordering was a company that would adhere to EU laws.

You're assuming they KNOW the laws.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 09:24:33 PM
being chartered accountants they really should know the law... having said that, I'd hate to stereotype, but in my work i've come across a fair few dodgy accountants that skirt the law as a main source of business.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: finnthecelt on January 14, 2014, 10:03:00 PM
being chartered accountants they really should know the law... having said that, I'd hate to stereotype, but in my work i've come across a fair few dodgy accountants that skirt the law as a main source of business.

I'm sorry but in today's day and age I just don't have a lot of faith in accountants. Or economists.  >:(
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 14, 2014, 10:05:26 PM
arcticjoe - They are very much subject to DSR as they have placed a product on sale for you to order rather than you requesting them to make one for you. Also if they claim that you're in fact providing kickstarter investment they have not made this clear to you and are in breach of consumer law.

The serious fraud office will have a field day once they get an email about this.

You should contact The Office of Fair Trading and report them. They can even have their accounts frozen for misleading customers.

P.S. Since they have not started production on your apparent "custom" order ask them to make you a 100GH/s miner instead...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on January 14, 2014, 10:28:26 PM
arcticjoe - They are very much subject to DSR as they have placed a product on sale for you to order rather than you requesting them to make one for you. Also if they claim that you're in fact providing kickstarter investment they have not made this clear to you and are in breach of consumer law.

The serious fraud office will have a field day once they get an email about this.

You should contact The Office of Fair Trading and report them. They can even have their accounts frozen for misleading customers.

P.S. Since they have not started production on your apparent "custom" order ask them to make you a 100GH/s miner instead...

From my understandings and reading. Kickstarter projects also offer products, but do not mention you are investor, it is just known you are a backer, but you are buying product from them aswell. So in their termz they have promised ~6 months delivery and product updates (which means it is kickstarter style, but saying kickstarter is not an official term) and refund policy. and say they are complying by DSR.. what is issue?.. there is timeline set, product updates set ( obviously full product does not exist yet, like kickstarter projects).. so indirectly you are an investor but not officially..
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: JTR on January 14, 2014, 10:45:43 PM
reserved
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 14, 2014, 11:08:45 PM
arcticjoe - They are very much subject to DSR as they have placed a product on sale for you to order rather than you requesting them to make one for you. Also if they claim that you're in fact providing kickstarter investment they have not made this clear to you and are in breach of consumer law.

The serious fraud office will have a field day once they get an email about this.

You should contact The Office of Fair Trading and report them. They can even have their accounts frozen for misleading customers.

P.S. Since they have not started production on your apparent "custom" order ask them to make you a 100GH/s miner instead...

From my understandings and reading. Kickstarter projects also offer products, but do not mention you are investor, it is just known you are a backer, but you are buying product from them aswell. So in their termz they have promised ~6 months delivery and product updates (which means it is kickstarter style, but saying kickstarter is not an official term) and refund policy. and say they are complying by DSR.. what is issue?.. there is timeline set, product updates set ( obviously full product does not exist yet, like kickstarter projects).. so indirectly you are an investor but not officially..

nowhere on alpha-t's website is it made stated that I am buying shares in any sort of a crowdfunded research project. I paid for a specific product, that alpha-t are allegedly planning to make multiple units of.
Also kickstarter is not subject to DSR because its not a EU or UK based company, Alpha T is.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on January 14, 2014, 11:32:39 PM
arcticjoe - They are very much subject to DSR as they have placed a product on sale for you to order rather than you requesting them to make one for you. Also if they claim that you're in fact providing kickstarter investment they have not made this clear to you and are in breach of consumer law.

The serious fraud office will have a field day once they get an email about this.

You should contact The Office of Fair Trading and report them. They can even have their accounts frozen for misleading customers.

P.S. Since they have not started production on your apparent "custom" order ask them to make you a 100GH/s miner instead...

From my understandings and reading. Kickstarter projects also offer products, but do not mention you are investor, it is just known you are a backer, but you are buying product from them aswell. So in their termz they have promised ~6 months delivery and product updates (which means it is kickstarter style, but saying kickstarter is not an official term) and refund policy. and say they are complying by DSR.. what is issue?.. there is timeline set, product updates set ( obviously full product does not exist yet, like kickstarter projects).. so indirectly you are an investor but not officially..

nowhere on alpha-t's website is it made stated that I am buying shares in any sort of a crowdfunded research project. I paid for a specific product, that alpha-t are allegedly planning to make multiple units of.
Also kickstarter is not subject to DSR because its not a EU or UK based company, Alpha T is.

You misunderstood me Miss. Joe. Kickstarter projects do not offer shares, they also offer a product. And Kickstarter is just the platform, there are many UK based projects who use Kickstarter...
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: misu on January 15, 2014, 01:04:56 AM
correct, they have kept £70 admin fee. That goes against the EU Distance Selling Regulations and I'm pretty sure with their primary business primarily being accountants they are fully aware of that fact... so the whole thing seems to reek of dodgy way of doing business from its very start.

Before you start referring to the EU laws and regulations, do your research. Kids, don't forget: Google is your friend. ;)  Here's the first link from my Google find list regarding the DSR:

Quote
...In this case, you're entitled to a refund of the total amount you paid, including costs to ship the item to you, and the fee to return the item. No admin or restocking fees should be charged. ...bla...bla...etc.

source: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations#link-6 (http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations#link-6)


But in this case you didn't get any product that you could return, the amount you paid last week is a deposit, so:

Quote
This information applies to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

You may be able to get your deposit back if it was put down as part-payment. You should remember that the trader is entitled to compensation because you have broken the agreement for goods or carrying out a service so keeping part or all of the deposit might be reasonable if the trader has spent money based on your order...bla...bla...etc.

source: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm)

Before you start crying about this and that, do a little bit of research and you could save your own and many other peoples time. Many of you refer to the UK/EU DSR but most of you have probably never read it and you're crying out loud for your legal rights but you're not even close to being aware of them.
Did you read Alpha-T's terms and conditions? Y/N
Did you accept them by placing an order and paying the deposit? Yes. So bear the consequences.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kaz911 on January 15, 2014, 03:51:33 AM
arcticjoe - They are very much subject to DSR as they have placed a product on sale for you to order rather than you requesting them to make one for you. Also if they claim that you're in fact providing kickstarter investment they have not made this clear to you and are in breach of consumer law.

The serious fraud office will have a field day once they get an email about this.

You should contact The Office of Fair Trading and report them. They can even have their accounts frozen for misleading customers.

P.S. Since they have not started production on your apparent "custom" order ask them to make you a 100GH/s miner instead...

From my understandings and reading. Kickstarter projects also offer products, but do not mention you are investor, it is just known you are a backer, but you are buying product from them aswell. So in their termz they have promised ~6 months delivery and product updates (which means it is kickstarter style, but saying kickstarter is not an official term) and refund policy. and say they are complying by DSR.. what is issue?.. there is timeline set, product updates set ( obviously full product does not exist yet, like kickstarter projects).. so indirectly you are an investor but not officially..

nowhere on alpha-t's website is it made stated that I am buying shares in any sort of a crowdfunded research project. I paid for a specific product, that alpha-t are allegedly planning to make multiple units of.
Also kickstarter is not subject to DSR because its not a EU or UK based company, Alpha T is.

You misunderstood me Miss. Joe. Kickstarter projects do not offer shares, they also offer a product. And Kickstarter is just the platform, there are many UK based projects who use Kickstarter...

Kickstarter does NOT offer products. They offer REWARDS that you MIGHT get. The reward might be a product. But Kickstarter does say if a REWARD is promised it has to be delivered - where IndieGoGoGoAway has no such language in their terms.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 15, 2014, 08:29:40 AM
Alpha are commiting fraud by failing to disclose information. People are thinking they are ordering a product while really Alpha have said themselves that this is a kickstarter style project, which means there are risks involved of which no one has been officially informed of. This entitles anyone to request a full refund as they were not made aware of this.

Anyone who has problems should contact the office of fair trading and also actionfraud where they can make a report against Alpha.

Quote
Fraud by failing to disclose information (Section 3)
The defendant:

failed to disclose information to another person
when he was under a legal duty to disclose that information
dishonestly intending, by that failure, to make a gain or cause a loss.

Like Section 2 (and Section 4) this offence is entirely offender focussed. It is complete as soon as the Defendant fails to disclose information provided he was under a legal duty to do so, and that it was done with the necessary dishonest intent. It differs from the deception offences in that it is immaterial whether or not any one is deceived or any property actually gained or lost.

The focus will be on:

the prosecution assertion that there was a legal duty to disclose information;
the precise relationship that gave rise to that duty;
the information that it is alleged that the defendant failed to disclose;
Whether the facts as alleged are capable of giving rise to a legal duty will be a matter for the judge; whether on the facts alleged, the relationship giving rise to that duty existed will be a matter for the jury. For example, was there a solicitor/client relationship or an agent/ principal relationship?

It will be necessary to recite all three elements in the particulars of the charge or indictment which must be very precisely drawn.

Any gain or loss that occurred should not appear in the charge or on the indictment. The matter will, however, be relevant to sentence, compensation and confiscation.

Anyone who would like to make a report can visit this site: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report-fraud-about-you

Details of the company are on their website, should you need them for the report.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 15, 2014, 08:40:41 AM
correct, they have kept £70 admin fee. That goes against the EU Distance Selling Regulations and I'm pretty sure with their primary business primarily being accountants they are fully aware of that fact... so the whole thing seems to reek of dodgy way of doing business from its very start.

Before you start referring to the EU laws and regulations, do your research. Kids, don't forget: Google is your friend. ;)  Here's the first link from my Google find list regarding the DSR:

Quote
...In this case, you're entitled to a refund of the total amount you paid, including costs to ship the item to you, and the fee to return the item. No admin or restocking fees should be charged. ...bla...bla...etc.

source: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations#link-6 (http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations#link-6)


But in this case you didn't get any product that you could return, the amount you paid last week is a deposit, so:

Quote
This information applies to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

You may be able to get your deposit back if it was put down as part-payment. You should remember that the trader is entitled to compensation because you have broken the agreement for goods or carrying out a service so keeping part or all of the deposit might be reasonable if the trader has spent money based on your order...bla...bla...etc.

source: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/faq_index_consumer_affairs/faq_consumer_affairs_deposit_back_if_cancel_goods_or_services.htm)

Before you start crying about this and that, do a little bit of research and you could save your own and many other peoples time. Many of you refer to the UK/EU DSR but most of you have probably never read it and you're crying out loud for your legal rights but you're not even close to being aware of them.
Did you read Alpha-T's terms and conditions? Y/N
Did you accept them by placing an order and paying the deposit? Yes. So bear the consequences.
your link refers specifically to goods or services purchased in a store, not over the internet. Anything purchased over the internet (minus auctions and a few exclusions) in EU is covered by DSR.

also, before you start being an ar$e maybe you should also do your research first, google seems to be not your friend in this case:

FYI:
Distance selling Regulations clearly state in section 3.48 : http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48 The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: litecoinninja on January 15, 2014, 09:45:51 AM
I have still received no response from "Fiaz" in regards to my invitation to do a live webcam broadcast.  What a surprise. So far no one has actually seen on video anyone who works for Alpha Technology (as far as I am aware).  Just a small photo of someones face.  Also no response in regards to how Alpha Technology could easily get themselves out of these fraud accusations by creating a legal disclaimer explaining the risks involved with a start up, and also getting anyone who has pre ordered to either agree to this disclaimer or issue them a refund.  If this were an honest mistake Alpha Technology would do this.  This is fraud and now they has been made aware of this they have the guilty mind required to for criminal prosecution.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 15, 2014, 11:41:30 AM
I have still received no response from "Fiaz" in regards to my invitation to do a live webcam broadcast.  What a surprise. So far no one has actually seen on video anyone who works for Alpha Technology (as far as I am aware).  Just a small photo of someones face.  Also no response in regards to how Alpha Technology could easily get themselves out of these fraud accusations by creating a legal disclaimer explaining the risks involved with a start up, and also getting anyone who has pre ordered to either agree to this disclaimer or issue them a refund.  If this were an honest mistake Alpha Technology would do this.  This is fraud and now they has been made aware of this they have the guilty mind required to for criminal prosecution.
I don't think I have paid for "live webcam broadcasts" - that's an entirely different business. ;)

I want a product and not a video from a person that did not even order. At this point it would be uninteresting to see a video. A video becomes interesting as soon as they have more details of the product, e.g. a PCB, a prototype.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 15, 2014, 11:47:49 AM
I don't think I have paid for "live webcam broadcasts" - that's an entirely different business. ;)

I want a product and not a video from a person that did not even order. At this point it would be uninteresting to see a video. A video becomes interesting as soon as they have more details of the product, e.g. a PCB, a prototype.

You are quite wrong there.

You did not pay for a product, you provided kickstarter investment for a concept to be designed and manufactured... Alphas words, not mine...

Also they have said their Terms of Order are void...?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jo2ltc on January 15, 2014, 11:57:42 AM
I don't think I have paid for "live webcam broadcasts" - that's an entirely different business. ;)

I want a product and not a video from a person that did not even order. At this point it would be uninteresting to see a video. A video becomes interesting as soon as they have more details of the product, e.g. a PCB, a prototype.

You are quite wrong there.

You did not pay for a product, you provided kickstarter investment for a concept to be designed and manufactured... Alphas words, not mine...

Also they have said their Terms of Order are void...?

No need to go in loops here. I am well aware of the non-refundable costs in ASIC development and I am happy to take the risk.

ANY other ASIC (flowertech, jasinlee) has exactly the same problem: EITHER you get enough funding for the ASIC mask via pre-orders OR you need some strong financial backing.

Regarding their Terms of Order, all I can see is a new account supposedly citing Alpha-Tech. Trust this or not? Decide for yourself.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 15, 2014, 12:13:43 PM
Quote
Regarding their Terms of Order, all I can see is a new account supposedly citing Alpha-Tech. Trust this or not? Decide for yourself.

screenshot of my email convo with Alpha T attached/

(http://s21.postimg.org/w6secx03n/Capture3.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w6secx03n/)
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jonnymander on January 15, 2014, 12:16:42 PM
If we are effectively investing in a kickstarter, this should have really been stated as such to begin with.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 15, 2014, 12:26:11 PM
exactly - i for one am no longer comfortable with the risk involved, especially considering how much more complex scrypt asic must be over a sha-256 asic. if companies with significantly more money and experience like hashfast and bfl are failing to deliver, then I definitely want out of this.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: arcticjoe on January 15, 2014, 12:31:48 PM


Also they have said their Terms of Order are void...?

i think guy meant to say "not void" in his email, but did not get his words out right - as in my previous email i inferred that seeing as terms arent actually legal then they must be void.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 15, 2014, 04:03:45 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 15, 2014, 04:06:49 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 15, 2014, 04:09:18 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 15, 2014, 04:15:46 PM
No need to go in loops here. I am well aware of the non-refundable costs in ASIC development and I am happy to take the risk.

ANY other ASIC (flowertech, jasinlee) has exactly the same problem: EITHER you get enough funding for the ASIC mask via pre-orders OR you need some strong financial backing.

Regarding their Terms of Order, all I can see is a new account supposedly citing Alpha-Tech. Trust this or not? Decide for yourself.

Even if every single person was aware of the risks involved Alpha would still BY LAW be required to disclose these risks on their website.

By failing to disclose information they have committed fraud.

P.S. arcticjoe, if you made an order via PayPal just open a case as the item is not delivered. Alpha are in breach of PayPal T&C as they are not selling a tangible product, but a pre-order. Furthermore PayPal has cracked down on all ASIC miner pre-orders as when companies have gone bust, it has been left with a very expensive bill.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 15, 2014, 04:16:26 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 15, 2014, 04:26:46 PM

And to the point that we should have made it clear we were a kickstarter like project from the start, we did, and we have never shied from this, we have always stated and continue to state we were going to use preorder money to complete the manufacturing process, see this update https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-13102013/ all the way back to the start of October, again this was posted on our twitter and right here on this forum. Additionally and once again, our terms of order clearly state that the remaining payments will be used to complete the final assembly and shipping.

As to the gentlemen who decided to order despite the fact that he didn't agree with the terms and is convinced we are in breach of UK/EU law (which I have addressed in a previous post, just go to my posts on my profile there are only a handful), why would you order only to cancel? Simply to cause a stir on this forum? I am sorry but I'm not sure how I'm suppose to respond to that.

People do not order from your news feed, twitter or this forum. They order from your website.

You have to clearly state that this is an investment rather then product purchase. You have to make this clear on the order page or in the terms and conditions at least. It is a requirement of the law when customers money is at risk. You have not done this.

Another thing to note is the misleading information from the news article you have provided:

Quote
We will NOT be taking any money from anybody until our well known partners have released news articles regarding our partnership and achievements. At that point it would mean we are ready to start taking in pre-orders to complete the manufacturing process. We also would like to fully complete our final ASIC assembly design, and for the ASIC manufacturer to complete it’s final touches on the chip design.

This means that you will be taking pre-order money for the manufacturing process which means the product would have been developed. It clearly has not and now you are saying that pre-order money was taken for development and the rest of the money will be for manufacturing.

And as for what you said regarding people ordering and cancelling, if you would have been up front about ALL the risks involved in this investment you would have every right to impose your terms of order albeit they may be unlawful. As you have not they are void, and in any case do not affect statutory rights.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: hover_skills on January 15, 2014, 04:46:20 PM

And to the point that we should have made it clear we were a kickstarter like project from the start, we did, and we have never shied from this, we have always stated and continue to state we were going to use preorder money to complete the manufacturing process, see this update https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-13102013/ all the way back to the start of October, again this was posted on our twitter and right here on this forum. Additionally and once again, our terms of order clearly state that the remaining payments will be used to complete the final assembly and shipping.

As to the gentlemen who decided to order despite the fact that he didn't agree with the terms and is convinced we are in breach of UK/EU law (which I have addressed in a previous post, just go to my posts on my profile there are only a handful), why would you order only to cancel? Simply to cause a stir on this forum? I am sorry but I'm not sure how I'm suppose to respond to that.

People do not order from your news feed, twitter or this forum. They order from your website.

You have to clearly state that this is an investment rather then product purchase. You have to make this clear on the order page or in the terms and conditions at least. It is a requirement of the law when customers money is at risk. You have not done this.

Another thing to note is the misleading information from the news article you have provided:

Quote
We will NOT be taking any money from anybody until our well known partners have released news articles regarding our partnership and achievements. At that point it would mean we are ready to start taking in pre-orders to complete the manufacturing process. We also would like to fully complete our final ASIC assembly design, and for the ASIC manufacturer to complete it’s final touches on the chip design.

This means that you will be taking pre-order money for the manufacturing process which means the product would have been developed. It clearly has not and now you are saying that pre-order money was taken for development and the rest of the money will be for manufacturing.

And as for what you said regarding people ordering and cancelling, if you would have been up front about ALL the risks involved in this investment you would have every right to impose your terms of order albeit they may be unlawful. As you have not they are void, and in any case do not affect statutory rights.

They are taking ~6 months to ship. Just like any ASIC project.. They need to use pre order money for certain high costs e.g. masking. What is your issue? Everyone knows this, KNCMINER or BFL dont mention its an investment, its not an investment its just a form of pre funding, theres no official term for kickstarter it just means to kickstart a project. they did many months of development to get to this stage.

It is so obvious you are a alt account of Retro or Jasinlee. Please take your butthurt jealous voice out of here. Your posts are getting annoying and it's only you and the cheap person who wants his 70£ regardless of the terms of order.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: raj_kapur on January 15, 2014, 05:04:11 PM
I love how Alpha Techno are close with the community and showing transparency and answrring all questions!

I love FIAZ!! And please dont be put down with trolls we love your community focus and regular updates and shutting trolls up with intellectuals!!!

+99999999999999999999999999999999999999
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 15, 2014, 05:12:06 PM
My questions were directed at the "official" company employee, so I would like to tell both of you Alpha shills that have posted above to kindly go fuck yourselves and let them answer.

I live and work in the UK and have no affiliation with any of the people you mention. I have no jealousy whatsoever as I'm hashing away while you all play with your thumbs praying for your miners to turn up.

I pity people like you who allow the wool to be pulled over their eyes.

It simply does not matter what KNC Miner, BFL or anyone else has done. Alpha is a UK registered company and as such needs to abide by UK laws.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 15, 2014, 05:14:07 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: jonnymander on January 15, 2014, 05:15:07 PM
My questions were directed at the "official" company employee, so I would like to tell both of you Alpha shills that have posted above to kindly go fuck yourselves and let them answer.

I live and work in the UK and have no affiliation with any of the people you mention. I have no jealousy whatsoever as I'm hashing away while you all play with your thumbs praying for your miners to turn up.

I pity people like you who allow the wool to be pulled over their eyes.

It simply does not matter what KNC Miner, BFL or anyone else has done. Alpha is a UK registered company and as such needs to abide by UK laws.

Namiki, you're forthright opinion is appreciated at least by myself and I'm sure by others too. These companies need to be held under extremem scrutiny.
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Fiaz-AlphaTechnology on January 15, 2014, 05:19:58 PM
*account deleted*
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: Namiki on January 15, 2014, 05:35:12 PM
Hello Namiki,

Our news feed is on our website, as is our terms of order.

It is not an investment, you are purchasing a product, an investment would involve us giving you some form of shares in our company.

Before taking in any pre-order money we had already invested months of our time not to mention a considerable amount of money into the development of this project, the pre-order money is being used to complete the development and manufacturing process which in fact overlap so we have always considered them to be the same stage. It is disingenuous and superficial to point out our update just states 'manufacturing process' and use that to accuse us of being misleading. Now we are saying the pre-order money will be used for development and the rest for manufacturing? No we aren't. The pre-order money is being used for development/manufacturing as has always been the case. The rest will be used for assembly and shipping as has always been the case, and I have proved this is what we have always said in the links included in my previous post.

That aside, to all those interested in specifics of our developmental process within the coming months we have released a roadmap of this here https://alpha-t.net/news/roadmap-outline/ and we will be releasing a timeline for each stage of the roadmap very soon.

All the best,

Fiaz.

Dearest Fiaz,

I am posting the full news article to which you were referring to in your previous post:

Quote
October 13, 2013
We have been working hard with our design partners and have some great announcements to make. First of all we apologise for using the term “GPGPU” as our original plan was to use multiple graphics processing chips. In fact we have gone one step forward, after completing our pre-ASIC implementation of our FPGA design and handing it over to our ASIC manufacturer, we have reached excellent prototyping speeds to take this further. Each ASIC chip would perform at a MINIMUM of 500 kh/s, at around ~20 watts. With multiple chips on a PCI-E card we can reach 5,000 kh/s (200 watts) – 10,000 kh/s (400 watts) or HIGHER. The price you pay for each device will be in ratio lower per kilohash than say an AMD 7950.

There are a few things to do before we start taking pre-orders and marketing. First of all is the design of how many chips we will put on each PCI-E board, it would more practical to quickly assemble GPU sized PCI-E devices instead of larger devices. As it would result in higher postage costs and time to assemble would be longer if we manufactured more chip dense devices. We would rather the customer receive their devices as soon as possible after fabrication is completed.

Secondly, is the release of the names of our well known and trusted design partner and ASIC manufacturers. They will also release a few news articles from their end and their media sources. And then our own marketing campaign. Our partners have a large assembly line already which has been part of huge projects in the past, so we will be distributing and assembling direct from their location, so you can expect our assembling and shipping time to be much quicker than you may have seen with other ASIC devices.

We will NOT be taking any money from anybody until our well known partners have released news articles regarding our partnership and achievements. At that point it would mean we are ready to start taking in pre-orders to complete the manufacturing process. We also would like to fully complete our final ASIC assembly design, and for the ASIC manufacturer to complete it’s final touches on the chip design.

We are nearing completion to start taking pre-orders, but we thought it would be good for the community to get some specific information and updates before everything kicks off from the media. We also want to thank all of the people who followed our progress and believed in us. The days of GPU mining for scrypt are soon to come to an end.

NOTE. We will be releasing a video of our FPGA (ASIC) prototype soon and some details of core hashing speed etc. Just for those people requiring more details. There is more work to be done, and speed/wattage is not final, but it will be around them figures we quoted. We also hope to put everyone’s suspicions to an end in the build up to our official launch and pre-order date.

I am not sure if you have some special recognition or interpretation skills but I do not see the word DEVELOPMENT anywhere in this news article, and especially with regards to pre-orders? Am I correct or am I totally blind and stupid?

You cannot manufacture before the product has been designed, developed and tested. If you're think you can manufacture prior to development completion you should really pack your things and leave this business as you're clearly not cut out for it.

You saying this is not an investment contradicts what arcticjoe was told when his money was not refunded. So who is lying, you or them?

P.S. Can you very kindly provide us with a breakdown of the admin costs the £70 is supposed to cover?
Title: Re: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Development
Post by: kramble on January 15, 2014, 05:39:20 PM
Before taking in any pre-order money we had already invested months of our time not to mention a considerable amount of money into the development of this project, the pre-order money is being used to complete the development and manufacturing process which in fact overlap so we have always considered them to be the same stage. It is disingenuous and superficial to point out our update just states 'manufacturing process' and use that to accuse us of being misleading. Now we are saying the pre-order money will be used for development and the rest for manufacturing? No we aren't. The pre-order money is being used for development/manufacturing as has a